Never happen. Even if she moved to Maine, she’s “from away” and we don’t elect people “from away”. IMHO Susan is “dead woman walking” (unelectable)
OK, I’m a bit embarrassed here, but I must admit I didn’t remember who she was until I Googled her. But then I’m not a Fox News viewer, so…
Not* my *mind, but…
Just Pm a Mod.
You’re half right. The decision not to go with Rice wouldn’t be based on the qualities she brings to the table, but on the baggage she brings to the table. It’s not her fault she has that baggage, but yelling that to the heavens won’t change the fact that it’s there.
And it’s not a fear of what the other side would do, it’s the knowledge of what they would do. When the Republicans were a sane party, it might have been all right to be willing to lose in order to show that you have balls, or integrity, or whatever. Now that they are clinically insane, winning is the first priority. If you think that people should put the country ahead of the party, then surely we should put it ahead of one person in that party.
Fortunately, there are millions of people who would make a fine senator, so it’s not like we have to run some dud that we have to hold our nose to vote for. Just somebody other than Rice.
Rice will be just fine. Anyone can be swiftboated. She brings no more baggage than anyone else would.
There are no possible Democratic candidates who are immune from the baseless accusations and conspiracy theories of the right. No matter whom you pick, they’ll just start up the machine.
Hillary Clinton was not a uniquely vulnerable candidate. And I don’t believe for a second that Sanders or Biden would have been shoo-ins. The campaign was as much about Trump winning as it was about Hillary losing. That’s not to say that the Trump victory was inevitable, but there were a lot more factors out there and Wikileaks, James Comey, and Fakebook were huge factors.
I agree with this. There’s no such thing as a foolproof candidate.
Anyone can be swiftboated, but here is a complete list of people who have even a low probability of running for the Senate in Maine, and by doing so could energize the Republican vote in swing states:
- Susan Rice
Name someone else in Maine with national notoriety other than LePage, who is unlikely to be the Democratic candidate for Senator.
…nope. I’m just right.
Rice isn’t bringing any “baggage” to the table. Baggage is a loaded term. It implies that Rice has done something wrong or improper and that would be used against her. But all she’s done is do her best to protect the integrity of the Federal Government.
Its not about “fault.” Its about letting the opposition control the narrative.
Not only are you letting them control the narrative, you are literally gifting them talking points. Whose side do you actually think you are on here?
No its fear.
We have knowledge what they will probably do. You are guessing the probable outcome. And you fear the outcome.
You aren’t in any better position to “guess” who the right or the wrong person is to be put forward as a candidate. You even believe that Bernie would have won. Why should we trust your judgement on this?
There aren’t millions of people who have served in public office with the integrity that Rice has done. There are very few people with her qualifications. There are even fewer who have her direct experience with the current administration: who know better than anyone else exactly what the stakes are.
She isn’t “a dud.” And if you have to “hold your nose” to vote for her then to be perfectly frank I can’t actually tell where your loyalties lie. She would make a perfectly fine senator: you concede this. It shouldn’t be a struggle to cast a vote in her name.
“Somebody other than Rice” is likely to come with “baggage” as well. So what is the acceptable amount of baggage a candidate is allowed to have?
I’m not saying Rice should run, and if she does run she should get the nod. But there is nothing disqualifying in the OP. If she decides to run then let the process play out. And if she gets the nomination then you better choose to do a bit more than simply “holding your nose” and casting a vote if you want the Democrats to win. Bernie & Co jumped too late onto the Hillary train. You can’t afford to play those sorts of games this time around.
And squirrel too!
Are not.
It would imply that if I hadn’t made it clear that she hasn’t. But call it a different name if you want, it will still doom her for sure, and possibly affect other races.
The opposition does control the narrative for the people who will be energized to vote Republican by her candidacy. The fact that you don’t like it doesn’t make it go away.
Is not.
No, but I’ll be disgusted by the outcome, and by people who could have prevented that outcome but refused to accept the world as it is, rather than what they wish it were.
Seriously, what the hell do you care who the senator from Maine is, as long as it’s a Democrat? Which would be a worse outcome – that we get the second most qualified Democrat elected as senator, or that we get another six years of Susan Collins? The most important thing a first-term senator is likely to do is vote with her party, and you don’t need no stinking qualifications to do that.
Um, because I’m some anonymous guy on the internet? Why indeed. But that’s my opinion, based on empirical data gathered from an admittedly small sampling of people. I don’t know anybody who voted for Hillary who wouldn’t have voted for Bernie or Biden if they had been the nominee. I know several people who might have voted for them over Trump. YMMV.
I haven’t studied her career in detail, but it seems to me that her direct experience with this administration was probably limited to a few short discussions with Michael Flynn, who was gone a month later. I conceded her qualifications from the beginning, but she has to win before she can use them, and I don’t think she can win. I would much rather see a slightly less qualified somebody who *can *win as the candidate.
I didn’t say she was a dud; you completely misunderstood me, and I don’t really see how you came up with your interpretation.
Oh, I don’t know, how about less than eight years of vilification by right-wing media and the Republican establishment? Seriously, how can you not see how damaged she is? With the Clintons and Obama out of the picture, the only person in active political life that compares to her in ability to generate hatred from the right wingnuts is Nancy Pelosi. And Pelosi isn’t trying to knock off a well-entrenched incumbent.
It’s very simple. Qualifications don’t win elections. Integrity doesn’t win elections. VOTES are what win elections. The reason the Republicans win is because they don’t give a shit about qualifications or integrity, but they do everything they can, legal and illegal, to suppress the Democratic vote, and energize the Republican vote. It would be stupid to help them energize the Republican vote.
…am too.
The word “baggage” implies you don’t actually know what your own stance is. She either has baggage or she doesn’t. Doing a “fine job in her roles as UN Ambassador and National Security Advisor” doesn’t sound like baggage to me.
Lets stick with English. And I’m not going to come up with a name to fit your argument. You do that yourself.
Protesting Kavanaugh energized the Trump base.
Should the protests have stopped?
I don’t like what? What won’t go away?
Of course it is. We all fucking know exactly what the fuck they are gonna do. We have that knowledge. What we don’t know is what will happen when they attack Rice. Its a given it will energize the base. But every fucking thing energizes the base. The President holds a rally every-other week to energize the base.
What we don’t know is what the Democrat voters will do. And that uncertainty creates fear. You’ve given into that fear. I don’t think you need too.
The-world-as-it-was before the last election was a world where Bernie didn’t get the nomination. If people had accepted that outcome, if they weren’t disgusted with that outcome, if they showed up and did their job at the last election then maybe we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
But it appears you want history to repeat itself.
If Rice gets the nomination then don’t be disgusted by the outcome. Because then you are refusing to accept the world as it is. Just accept it. Energize your own base. Get out and vote. And get out and get others to vote. Its a fairly simple equation.
One would think you would want the best candidate for the job.
That doesn’t sound like that is something you are interested in at all.
You’ve made it quite clear you aren’t interested in the “second most qualified Democrat” getting the nomination. As long as its a Democrat, as long as it isn’t Rice, as long as they vote with the Dems it can be any of the other million people who would “make a fine senator.” Just pick one of those.
I think that’s a dangerous proposition. I think that is much more risky than nominating Rice. I think the better thing do do is firstly wait until we find out if Rice is throwing her hat into the ring. Then wait to see who else wants to run. Then you go through the process and let the “best” person win. Then everybody throws their support 100% behind the winner, whomever that winner may be.
Why do you have a problem with that process? Why do you want to preempt that process before its even begun?
I’m starting to think that maybe you aren’t the best person to be picking the next Senator for Maine.
Cite for this “empirical data” please? Is your sample size bigger than your own bedroom?
How many people do you know? Three?
You don’t think she can win? That’s a fucking surprise.
#neverrice.
We get it.
Nobody has heard a peep about Rice since she dropped out of the news-cycle. The only person I’ve seen vilifying her recently is you. Are you part of the Republican establishment?
Anyone searching this messageboard for stuff about Rice won’t find hit-pieces from the right-wing media or the Republican establishment. They will find a post titled “Fuck Me (Susan Rice)” written by a “Dem” who is passionately arguing why someone as highly regarded as Susan Rice shouldn’t be allowed to run for higher office.
Way-to-energize-the-Dem-base-dude.
Obama was “damaged.” He was a secret Muslim born in Kenya. Obama really fucking energized the Republican base. But he also energized many elements of the Democrat base as well. And it was the second element that was more important.
Pelosi?
I’m starting to see a pattern here. Pelosi, Hillary, Rice…
Would you support any man for the job, as long as it isn’t a woman?
Integrity, qualifications, character, and a host of other things are important factors in winning votes. I would abso-fucking-lutely vote for Rice if I were able. Whether or not others would vote for her is something that would get tested by the primary process.
No matter what the Republicans do at the next election the Democrats aren’t going to win unless they get their voters out in force. Worry about energizing your own base. Fight voter suppression. But the best candidates up for the job. And whoever wins: pull in and support them.
It would be stupid to let something you literally have zero control over dictate a candidate for higher office.
She is likely not the best candidate but not because of the luggage that Fox has made up.
As noted by Fir na Tine, Mainers are unlikely to vote for someone not of Maine: it would be that carpetbag she’d be carrying that’d be the disqualifying baggage.
There are those OF Maine, and who are free of any association with Beltway dysfunction, who may be better choices. The current speaker of Maine’s House of Representatives, Sara Gideon, is making some noises. Lucas St. Clair, whose father founded Burt’s Bees, is being talked about. And with Beltway dysfunction attached is Chellie Pingree, current Representative of Maine’s 1st congressional district, who is also being floated. And more.
For the Democratic nomination for Senate in 2020 there will be a race, but not likely a Rice.
The rules that they set out are that we should be civil in our discourse, while they are anything but. We go high, they kick us in the nuts.
I didn’t say anything at all about life being fair. I pointed out that the republicans are not playing fair, and so we should not be listening to anything that they have to say.
Bernie has a years long backlog of being a socialist. Don’t try to make it sound like that wouldn’t be played up.
Might be, might be. And if it had been 3 degrees warmer (fahrenheit) in Dearborn, Michigan, Hillary would have won.
I don’t know if I can name anyone else in Maine, period.
Can you name someone, anyone, that has any sort of prominence in the democratic party who does not have “baggage”?
Can you explain what this post means please?
You believe that Rice running in Maine would impact turnout in states other than Maine, by voters who could not vote against her?
If so, that is quite an assertion.
The next question … huh? But sure. Stephen King is of Maine, has national notoriety, and is unlikely to be the Democratic candidate for Senator. John Travolta lives there part of the year anyway. As do Susan Sarandon and Sally Struthers and Kurt Russell and Michael Chabon and Lois Lowry and Don McClean and Justice Roberts and Zbigniew Brzezinski and J.J. Abams and … well the list goes on. Plenty with national notoriety who are very unlikely to be the Maine Democratic candidate for Senator. Hey George and Barbara Bush live there and they are both pretty unlikely too!
What exact point is that question trying to make?
Thing is that national notoriety is neither here or there to winning the nomination or the race in Maine. Getting Maine Democrats to vote for you over the others running and getting both Democrats to come out for you and Independents to choose you over Collins would be.
Sanders would have been swiftboated out of the race. Yes, Biden might have won, but there still would have been plenty of swiftboating.
Before this thread, I had barely heard of her.
She really doesnt have national notoriety. I dont know why you hate her so much, she seems fine to me.
So what *is *her super baggage?
I dont care, as long as it is a Dem. But why do you hate Susan Rice?
I have never heard, read or seen any of this vilification of Rice you say is so very prevalent. Cite? Linky?
That I can accept, Maine is kinda insular. I can see not being a native would count against someone.