Ahh Eidolon909, I just read your reply, and I now see your OP in a new light…
forget the brick comments… obviously you were referring to the Liberal voters…
The idea of Manifest Destiny just raises my hackles…
Maybe he just wanted to say what he said and say it here.
fair enough, Lib. I just felt it was a little unnecesary.
Eidolon909.
Was my definition incorrect?
So Down Syndrome is now fair game for insult?
Why would mongoloid be disallowed while moron (check that dictionary) is OK?
I mean…saints preserve us! Someone dosen’t like “TwistofFate” and voiced their opinion!
NO OPPOSING THOUGHT OR OPINION SHOULD BE ALLOWED!
I had no idea that moron was an actual medical term. I shall no longer use it.
Well let me just say that I consider that to be a very classy response. I apologize if my post seemed nasty.
…and now back to the pit…
How does increased military spending (or intelligence spending for that matter) reduce the risk of terrorist attacks? Who is Bush Jr. kidding? If anything, shouldn’t Canada try to be more like Iceland and Luxembourg? Military spending is a stop-gap fix for the economy, but not much else. Like Dad used to say: “Ships used to be made of wood and the sailors made of steel, now the ships are made of steel…”
Is there a reason why Canada needs a bigger military presence?
Are you planning something the rest of the world needs to know about or is it just that you want a bigger army goddamit? Jealous of your neighbour are we 
See, the paternalistic cradle-to-grave socialism that Canada has in lieu of high military spending is going to result in exactly the same appallingly short life expectancy and median standard of living that’s turning Sweden into a third-world country.
To live up to treaty obligations, keep up our historical peace-keeping efforts and stand shoulder-shoulder with our allies, yes. Yes, we do.
Even though I am very right wing, I feel I have to remind Eidolon909 that IIRC it was the Mulroney Gvt [C]onservatives that started the military budget slashing.
Yes, it has gone down-hill even further and the liberals have done little to reverse it, but they didn’t start it.
bernse, don’t forget Trudeau, IIRC, his government initiated the long, slow decline in our military
If he doesn’t, that makes two of you.
Whether or not the Senate has decided we need to spend more on our military, it’s stupid for the USA to hector Canada into spending more on the military, because
- It isn’t their business,
- The difference between Canada’s current military capability and what Canada would have if it increased its spending, even by a significant amount, would NOT make any dent whatsoever in American military needs and expenditures, and
- Badgering is not going to work.
Anyone who thinks an increase in Canadian military sending is going to be of any benefit to the USA - beyond creating business for American defense contractors, of course - is insane or retarded. Let’s suppose Canada implemented the plans and spent the money to significantly upgrade the army - say, we fielded four infantry brigades, bought some nuclear submarines, new helicopters, and outfitted a few tank battalions with new tanks. how would this help the US in any way? Do you really think the Pentagon’s going to say “Shit, this is great, now we can count on the Canadians to save us!” American military obligations and needs wouldn’t change a bit. Even at a higher level fo expenditure, Canada’s capabilities would not, in any meaningful way, change American needs.
Furthermore, the willingness to SPEND money on the army does not necessarily translate into a willingness to use the army in ways the USA would find beneficial. Sweden has a pretty decent army, but it doesn’t do the USA any good. What guarantee is there that a big Canadian army would even be used in Iraq?
I don’t agree with much the Liberal government does, but Canada’s armed forces exists for Canada’s benefit, not the USA’s. If we plan to expand our military capabilities in part to defend NATO or our other allies, that’s great. If we’re planning to expand our capabilities to meet American requirements, that’s fucking idiotic. We’re a sovereign country; we should support the USA when we feel it’s correct to do so and when it suits Canada’s interests, but spending taxpayer dollars just to kowtow to another country’s wishes is dumb.
Canada should spent more on the military if it benefits CANADA, not just because some foreign potentate wants us to blow a few bux on new choppers. Now, if you can provide some logical reason why Canada shouldn’t just pull all its troops from overseas and scale the army back even further, but rather should expand its military capacity, by all means let’s see that argument. You may have some really good points. “Because George Bush wants us to” is a stupid reason.
Humm - I’ve checked, and “Ass-Hat” does not seem to describe an actually medical condition…
**Eidolon909 **, you are an Ass-Hat. You appear to have no real idea what you’re talking about.
Are the Liberals the best thing since sliced bread? No. But who do you choose instead? The Canadian-Alliance? Breeding hatred and racism since 1990? Or perhaps you prefer poor Joe Clark, the only positive aspect of the Conservatives, who I will remind you, were considerate enough to introduce the GST the last time they were in power. Oh, wait. I know - how about Alexa McDonough who has about as much charisma as the gum on the bottom of my shoe, and who’s party, incidentally, opposes any increase in military spending. (Sorry Matt - if you were the leader, I’d totally vote NDP).
Green Party? Pot Party? Rhinoceros Party? Which of these would you suggest as a better alternative to the Liberals?
Please - do tell, because I’m really interested in the answer.
Actual. Actual medical condition…
I should never post when miffed…
:tap on shoulder: If Canada is going to expect the US and its own taxpayers to provide its defense instead, then yes, it’s the USA’s business.
See above. They’re Canada’s military needs, too - and, as bernse pointed out, they’re not just needs but the obligations that the major industrial democracies have. It isn’t about helping the US, it’s about helping the world. Canada is a part of the world too, last I checked.
Apparently nothing else does, either. Can’t hurt to try.
I’m underwhelmed by Eidolon909’s, but I’m not going to stoop to ad hominem attacks. I was in the Canadian Forces; specifically, in the Navy. At the end of WWII, we had the third largest Navy in the world. Now, we have three destroyer escorts, 12 frigates and four modern subs (two in the water). Would I like to see a dramatic upgrade in the CF? Absolutely! Do I think Bush was out-of-place in admonishing NATO members (including Canada) to beef up their military? Perhaps.
The kind of bile that Eidolon909 spewed is completely unwarranted, though. I’m disgusted.
Why am I picturing Eidolon wiping spittle off of his monitor? First off, I don’t buy your argument. Last time I checked Canada was an independant nation, we aren’t the fifty first state. We have a right to determine our own spending priorities, and one priority we have is that we want to spend our tax dollars on a (moderately) progressive social agenda, rather then building up our military forces. One thing I find interesting is that most of the people who support increased military spending are also the ones that are most vociferous in their complaints about our tax burden. If they want to increase military spending while reducing or cutting taxes that means they are going to neglect spending in other areas, and that will reduce the spending in areas that are contributing to our social enhancement. It always surprises me that people will value bombs and boats over the welfare of it’s citizens. Then they will try and justify it by saying that we have to defend our way of life. Of course the way they defend it is to bend to the wishes of another country giving up one of the differences that make us Canadians.
Of course that is just my opinion, and I know that it is no more valid or correct then the opinion of others…I will read what you will post and if I disagree I will note it, but I will not resort to using offensive terms like Mongoloid, which fell out of favour in the fifties btw, to denigrate those who disagree with me. Using terms like that have just destroyed the force of your arguments and will only lead people to make a note that your opinion isn’t worth “a warm pail of spit”.
Of course YMMV…
Shades of Rosiewolf, methinks…
Nahhh…I haven’t gotten riled up enough to swear in the pit for the third time in my SDMB career
Ummm just who are we supposed to have an army to be defended from? The Soviet Menace is gone, and While The actions in Afghanistan may have slowed terrorist acts to random dribbles it by no means stopped them nor will any miliatry action in my opinion.
Also are you suggesting if we increase or Military the US will reduce its by the same amount? The US taxpayers will get the same Bang for their buck no matter what we do. Your troops are not deployed in our streets or flying over our cities so where are your resources being diverted from? If we put a hundred thousand more Canadians in Uniform the United States will not cut one hundred thousand of theirs.
On this I can agree to. We know we need to upgrade and rejuvinate or military to maintain a state of readiness and live up to previous commitments.
However you must realize that WE KNOW our deficiencies and WE will debate and deal with it internally. Any badgering or berating from the outside only comes off as interference. Last Time I checked we were also a soverign nation with the freedom to make our own mistakes.
But thanks for the tap on the shoulder now go away.