Fuck you Child Support Recovery (or Deadbeat dads part 2)

The BBQ Pit
21

I can answer for me only- At first it was because I was down for 2 years from 2 back surgeries- couldn’t really do anything.
After that, for several years, I was pretty demoralized- my fault, yeah. But, although I am somewhat better now, back then I was easily intimidated by these people, and they were decidely unhelpful in letting me know how to approach reviews or any other alternative. Their standard reply, paraphrased, was ‘This is what we’ve done, you can’t change it.’ I have since learned that this was a bald-faced lie, but it’s what I got over and over. I have learned that this is a standard tactic- if they can intimidate a person into jsut going along with what they decree, it makes their job easier, makes the department look better for funding purposes, and (imho) it gives some of them a sense of personal satisfaction.

So, a few years later, when I am starting to get some self-respect, and get a little more pro-active, yeah, I have actually had it modified twice. But it’s a huge headache- those forms you’re talking about- every time, I have to do them over and over, because the packet they send me of their own forms is always missing something.
This last bunch- I am not good with this kind of stuff, so I tried to decipher what they were asking, couldn’t. So, I sent it to my ma and sis- they’re way better at paperwork than I am. They couldn’t make heads nor tails of it either.
Best I can conclude is that some basic stuff is again missing. I’m to the point that I think they did at least this last mistake deliberately. I’m also to the point where I’ve given up for a while. I have only asked once for the actual support to be reduced- I could not afford it. The other times what I’ve asked for was that the size of the payments of the back support be reduced.
Why I’ve had to do it more than once is because I’ve changed jobs a couple of times. Every time I have, they up the obligation to an amount that they evidently pull out of a hat, because the order goes out before we’ve even established a wage. The reason I suspect this is because both times, the amount they demanded (and got, till I could get it changed) was in excess of 50% of my wages and this violates their own rules.

But, if they are screwing a person, it does indeed take a lawyer to remedy the situation. And if that person is being screwed by them in the first place, s/he doesn’t have the resources to get a lawyer. This is my experience. YMMV
As I indicated above- I think the idea of these agencies is good- I ain’t no angel, and if it weren’t for them taking the money, I know she would not get it consistently, I am not that good a guy. So, I’m glad they do it, because I know it’s my obligation, she could use it, and I really do love my son very much.
But they really have turned a good idea into a heavy-handed, megalomaniacal, in cases, illegal, reality. There are lots of shit heads out there, I know. But they are also grinding good people to dust.
I have experienced exceptions to this type of treatment, to be fair. But they have been mighty few and shortlived. In general, I find their tactics as they have been directed at me and others (not all, but I haven’t been able to figure out the basis for being treated humanely) to be strongly reminiscient of RL trolls.

I would like to thank you though for bringing the matter of the forms/ability to initiate modifications on your own in at least some locals- I was so busy ranting, I neglected to. That wasn’t very helpful on my part.
FTR, I only recently was raised to $12.00/hr- I have been paying in excess of $400.00/mo for a long time now. That doesn’t leave much, especially when I was at $10.00/hr. But I am to the point, as stated above, where I am making it paycheck to paycheck, as long as nothing goes wrong.

22

First of all together my husband and I have five kids, the oldest being his, the next two being mine, and the last two being ours together. But you know what how many of you knew that? I never separate them on the fact of parantage, they are all ours and we love them all equally.
So, why is the first one in your eyes better than the rest because she was born first? She isn’t. Not in a way that her other siblings should suffer anyway.
And as for giving your child the last two pieces of bread and the peanut butter, I have been through many more worries than that.
Have you ever had to tell your kids that “were just going to leave the lights and tv off for the night and play games and read by candle light for the next few days just for fun” Yeah, no gas or electricity. Food, fuck, I have gone a few days without eating so the kids could.
As for my husbands job, he works steady even in the snow and rain they have them do other things at the shop. There is always something to do. This year was a fluke with all the snow and they pretty much closed the whole town for a while.
The reason we get behind every year is the way the have it set with the total support due on the third of the month.
As for me marrying a man with one child, why did he marry me having two? It was love, between us, and the love we had for each others children. They were involved in every part of planning our lives together.
You sound like my grandma when I was a single mom! " you will never find a man that will love you now that you have two small children" Um, she’s 82 and in her time that was unheard of, so I understood that it was just the way she was raised to believe. What is your excuse? Who made you so bitter about love?
I didn’t ask to be judged, or felt sorry for from you. I was ranting about a shitty thing that was happening in my life right now.
We are so more than willing to pay child support and more importantly we are there for her whenever she needs us for love and emotional support. (remember there is more than one thing that can make a person a shitty parent)
Take my sons father. A father by default. They sent him paper work to fill out accepting or denying paternity since he wouldn’t sign paper work in the hospital since I wouldn’t marry him. He never turned it in so it went through by default. He pays his support because they garnished his wages, but he never sees his son. Even when he was hit by a car the man showed up for about three hours total for the two weeks we were in the hospital, and not at all once we were home. I even made it so he didn’t have to see our son in my home if it made him uncomfortable. Do you know what it is like to wheel your child out in a body cast and wait for a parent that he loves and looks up to and then not have said parent show up? No? Then shut the hell up.
I have been on all sides of this argument. My dad never paid or saw us, we pay and see my husbands daughter, my daughters dad pays and sees her, and my sons dad you just heard the story on.

The point of my op was that the honest working people are getting screwed, and the shitty uncaring people are slipping through the cracks.
We are not asking to lower the support, or get out of it in anyway, we are asking for something to be done with the due date so it runs smoothly.
Is that so hard to understand you moron? Did I state anywhere that I thought it was wrong that we were being made to pay, or that the amount needed to be changed? Go ahead, read the op again, I’ll wait.

The letter that they sent me states that they only take your income tax when you owe more than $500, or you haven’t paid the support obligation as assessed or ordered by the court for each of the twelve months preceding the date of the letter, or has not made a monthly payment on the delinquency for each of the twelve months preceding the date of the letter.
None of that applies to us. We are not more than five hundred behind, and we pay every month, and there is no back support owed.
So once again I ask why? We don’t meet any of the guide lines they set.
It is a personal thing for me I guess. I hate the fact that because they stepped on thier own rules that my husband looks like a bad father.

23

Needs2know, you said it better than I did and I was trying to say the same thing.

If you have a child and do not make quite a bit of money, then your entire existance should be devoted to providing for that child. You shouldn’t be worried about having a life or, god-forbid, starting another family. It royally pisses me off when I see men find out that they are going fathers start hiding income and other crap in order to minimize child support payments. They pay way to small a payments and think it covers everything. Child needs braces? That’s tough…my $300 a month covers that. Child gets sick and needs appendix removed? Sorry, my $300 a month covers it. After all I need to live and support my second family! College education? Are you crazy? That’s what the mother is supposed to be saving from the $300! Shouldn’t she be finding a man so that he can support my kid?

Get off your butt, there is 168 hours in a week. Work 120 hours a week if you need to but stop trying to cheat your child!

24

Hey, once again stick to the op.
It was not about my husband and myself complaining about amount, or hiding money to get out of paying.
It was about child support recovery stepping on their own rules and screwing a guy who is paying and doing all that he can do for our child.
If you don’t have anything constructive to say than get lost. You are turning this into a slam fest about people not the system, and even you who have no idea what you are talking about has to realise the system is corrupt.

25

I simply cannot believe that there is no way to appeal a child support order, change a method of payment, or have other types of issues regarding child support addressed in your state. The system in my state is not perfect but it is much better than it was 10 and 20 years ago. It’s a little slow moving but for the most part it seems fair and there are methods for making changes when needed. Get on the phone and call someone to find out how you might make the proper adjustments to your plan. In my town I simply have to call the Juvenile and Domestic court clerk. They will advise me on whatever papers need to be filled out or who I need to speak too.

I feel for you I really do. I know exactly what it is like to go without. I know what it is like to have my phone and my lights cut off. I was married at the time, to my construction worker husband. My kids wear hand-me-downs even now. Vacations are only things we dream about. The thing is I have two kids and they are enough. You have five. I can imagine how taxing it must be worrying about where the money will come from to feed and clothe them. You can be kid poor you know. You can have so many little bundles of joy that it sucks all the joy out of everyone’s life. They like to sell that poor and happy crap on the Lifetime movie of the week. But life ain’t the movies and kids and adults have basic needs that are often not met when there isn’t enough income in the home. And your grandma has a point, there are plenty of people out there that are not willing to take on someone else’s kids, and I can’t blame them. I’ve tried it myself and don’t think I’m willing to try it again, my two are enough.

It just seems to me that you should have some means of addressing your concerns about the child support. Most states do have systems in place that take a change in circumstances into account.

Needs2know

26

Needs said:

I’m sorry Needs, but that’s just bullshit. I know I’m going to get pissed just writing this but…

My Story

I have TEMPORARY custody of my kids. Going on a year now. Why? In March of last year my ex was arrested for drug dealing from her house. Her husband has also been arrested for the same charges. Several times. I bought this to the attention of the courts both before and after the arrest.

The last year they were in her complete care, they all missed more than 50 days of school. They had behavior problems.

Despite having police reports, school records showing the kids missing weeks worth of school, having CPS substantiate (sp?)several complaints. I still can’t get full physical custody.

Why? What have I done? Nothing. I’ve always supported my kids. My kids tell the interviewers they want to stay with me. I’ve have the same residence since my divorce. I’ve changed jobs, to a higher paying one. They love my new wife.

Wanna know how many times the ex has visited the kids. 5 times, totalling less than 8 hours. Do you know when they stopped taking child support? They haven’t. (Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that they take suport directly out of my check, see I made the mistake of pissing my ex off, so she called them and said I hadn’t been paying. On her word alone, they didn’t request copies of checks from me, nothing, 10 days after her threat I’m getting garnished) I’ll find out about that this week, when they’ll probably extend the twice already extended TEMPORARY custody.

Don’t tell me it’s not biased against men, try going to court with one.

27

Stuffinb, do you mind my asking where the support is going? I mean if you have the kids even on a shitty temp basis. I figure like the situation we discussed before that if she was on state aid you will probably be paying them for a while.

We have 15 days to request an appeal of this. Now, if they don’t have an appointment in the next 15 days that is our tough luck. No extentions for any reason.
As for getting the date changed we will have to go to court for that. Which I don’t understand since nobody but them has a problem with changing the date.

The hand me down clothes run rampant through our two households. It’s great. His ex has four including my step daughter, and I have four excluding her. Eight total and we swap clothes all the time with each other and another friend that has six kids all to her husband and herself. Hand me downs are a wonderful money saver.

28

Yeah she went on state aid, TANF I think it’s called, 2 years ago. So I think it’s distibuted through that, thogh I’m not entirely sure how it works. As you can probably guess, we not exactly freinds.

The hand me downs are useful at my place too. It helps that the boys are all two years apart. I just wish shoes lasted a little longer at this point. It’s hard sometimes, and I just don’t get how they’re taking money from me for kids that are with me.

Anyhow thanks for letting me vent.

29

As I have no experience with these types of situations, I’ll make no judgments on the individuals posting here about their personal lives. It seems Kricket’s husband is trying hard to fulfill his obligations.

I just wanted to say to Kricket how I now understand why you’re in a tough living situation. I remember you mentioned it in Great Debates one time. As I said then, I still think there’s ways to improve your lot in life. Maybe there’s a better job with more pay out there waiting for your husband if he looked for it. I’m not saying this is the answer, or that he definitely would find anything better, but is he looking? Extra money and career advancement never hurt. And, please disregard this comment if you’re already going through the process of job searching. I’m not trying to be holier than thou. I truly believe, though, that you can improve your lot in life with pure effort. It’s never easy, I know. But, it’s possible.

30

Thanks- That was a nice post.

I think it’s a screwed up situation. (Sorry to hear yours Stuff- I worked with guy, we got to talking about it- He lived with his ma for less than a year, then went to live with his dad- they still charged his dad up to his 18th b-day- like somebody else up there, I wonder where the money went?)

But, I wanted to say, that was a nice, gentle post.

And you’re right- at least from my viewpoint. I am doing the bvest I can, whilst still staying in the state my son lives in, so I really haven’t a leg to stand on, sort of. And I could take a second job, in fact have. But man, it’s really no way to live. To me, yeah, you work, you do what you can, you contribute. But there also have to be rewards in life. I know you’re not saying otherwise, I just thought of it is all…

I think the bottom line is that it’s not so black and white, people’s various life situations. It may or may not be an option to get a better job, it may or may not be an option to do modifications DYI.

I’m mumbling- just wanted to thank you for your post…

31

Sorry Stuffy…you know I respect you we’ve talked a few times and I consider us friends. But I have been to court and I have been with a man and the man was the one in the wrong. In my state they will yank your kids in a heartbeat for drugging. All I can tell you is appeal the decision. I don’t know how things work where you are but if a Juvenile and Domestic judge hands down a decision that you don’t like it can be appealed. It is then bumped up to the Circuit court judge. You might also ask for a legal advocate for your children. I’ve seen child support orders reduced for the deadbeat parent because they were out of work. (by choice BTW) I’ve seen people lose custody. And yes, it sucks but if the custodial parent has to go on any kind of state aid, they’ve got you! Not only will they follow you around and garnish your wages, they’ll confiscate your tax return, or throw you in jail. My support is paid through child support enforcement but they will not go to court for me. I would have to submit a form asking them to act in my behalf, but if you’ve been on aid it’s automatic. And it continues pretty much forever.

Some friends of mine are trying to get full custody in a joint custody situation right now. The mother burned the child on the foot with a curling iron. She comes to live with them every other week. It has been difficult because they cannot find day care that will take a child every other week. The child shows up sick and they must take her to the doctor. The child is always dirty and unkept. They have hired a lawyer to try and get full custody. In this situation I do think the courts are leaning toward the woman. But the child is only 3 and many people feel that a small child belongs with the female parent. Although I don’t think she’d stand a chance with a recent drug conviction in my state that’s a sure way to lose custody here.

All I can say is that I would go to court as many times as it took to keep from paying child support to someone that doesn’t even have the child. I’d appeal and appeal and appeal. I’d demand a child advocate or contact social services, often they will go to court with you.

Sorry you’re having such a bad time of it. I’d just keep working the system, at this point that’s all you can do.

Needs2know

32

Hey NeedsI’m not mad at ya, just frustated with the courts
To Be Fair

I’m due to go to court Thursday, and my kids do have an advocate who was appointed at my last court date. After talking with me and reviewing the CPS files is recommending I get physical custody. I’m just too jaded now to hope it all goes well, and really expect the worse. BTW, here we have family court, it’s unusual for a case to be moved out of their jurisdiction.

I used to get all these postive pep talks from my old lawyer. But things steadily got worse. I just want resolution. This summer I plan to relocate either to Asheville, NC or Newport News, VA. Yes I’m intentionally trying to get them as far away from her as possible, that and the cost of living here sucks.

33

Clucky, that was a nice post. And yes, that is one of the reasons I am in my “evil” situation. At the point in time when we moved in here I had just had our youngest son, and when he was three weeks old I found out I was pregnant with our youngest daughter. At this point in time Scott had a really shitty job and actually got one two week pay check for dead zero, and the next two week check was negative $2.45.
Yes, I know that was illegal, but the store he was working for said tough luck.
When I work things go pretty well for us, but I have just gotten back to work since my oldest son is fully recovered from his dance with that car.
Yeah, that one hit the pocket book hard also. Since of course his sperm donor couldn’t remember his sons birthdate and just made one up, I now have to send them birth certificates and such to show them that I am right and he is a dumb ass. Until they get the matter cleared up they have stopped paying on hospital bills.

Hey, Inor, you could always move here to Iowa. I would love to have another Doper close, and that would give us more kids and clothes to swap around. I love taking bunches of kids to the park and swimming and camping and such. And ask BeagleDave and ChrisCTP, I don’t bite. (unless you ask of course :wink: )

You guys want to hear something funny?
My 33 year old friends mother just recieved her very first child support check. See, his dad turned 65 and retired, and child support caught up with him. There are three kids in the family from 36 to 31, and she just started getting child support. She spent it on the grand kids. It is accrued back support that he owes and every once in a while she gets a small check and spends them on the grand kids too.

Good luck in court Stuffinb. I will be thinking of you.

Oh, also this is something else sucky that happened to me today.
My brother-in-law who doesn’t pay child support for his kids. At least not recorded through any court, he pays her directly, and she pockets it and doesn’t report it. I told him that she was screwing him but he doesn’t belive me. Anyway, he got his income tax back. All of it! And he is like ten years behind. I have made him promise me that he will not bring this up in front of Scott. Their other brother also slipped through the cracks with tons of back support.

See, that is what I am talking about. We are two weeks late, and it is being made up with a payment and a half each week, and they hold our returns, but his brothers who are irresponsible, and don’t even see their kids, slide right on through.

I didn’t mean to be so harsh and bitchy earlier even though this is the pit, but I am so tired of people telling me that we are just trying to get out of paying. And telling me that I was wrong for the way I live my life.

34

Stuffin- I wish you luck and do think it’s gonna come out ok for you. Anyways, I got my fingers crossed.

Needs- after reading that last post, I have more understanding for your posts before that- that’s a bad situation, and I’m sorry for harshing on you. This, as posts from both sides illustrate, is a very emotional issue for those involved.

You who posted un-involved in a similar situation-
you’re still talkin out your fuckin little tight holier-than-thou-asses, Fuck you.

Kricket- I would love to and am honored- really- it would be so great to swap hand-me-downs. You’re a lady, and I stayed out of this thread today because I saw that you were wayyy more credible and nice than I was being.
(Would’ve been more gore galore had I not…;))

35

Inor if you have ICQ, message me 16971971.
I’m kinda curious as to your comment about me, and why you didn’t post today.
Did you think anything you would have said might have offended me, or made me think of you badly because of your feelings?
Nope, everybody is entitled to rant. Even if at the time they are seeing so red that they say shit that they only mean at that time. It helps to get it out.
Trust me, I have started some stupid rants about the most mundane shit going on in my life. (like a few other have) And it helps to get it out. Even if you get your ass flamed, at least it isn’t bottled up anymore.

And for those that mentioned child advocates, IIRC Drain is going to school to do just that. And I just know that the children in her area are going to do great with her on their side.
I wish they could all be not so jaded, but I am sure as with most jobs alot of these people are desensitised.
I think that is the real problem.

36

Kricket, ma’am
Lady means Lady- the good stuff…
you cuss, but not like me.
you’re level-headed but still lose it sometimes.
I’ll bet you wear flannel shirts untucked, with jeans (sooo hot) sometimes
You are being in there, game, with yours and his kids and all the parents,
you didn’t really lose it on this topic, which, as I said, is very emotional for those involved, in the face of some junior shithooks saying all kinds of irrelevant, insulting doody.
(guessing) you get ahem nasty-as-you-wanna-be when it’s time, act like a sometimes somewhat dusty earth angel when it’s not.
Nice to me:)
A Lady.
Remarkable, I jsut thought about it, you’re the 5th one I’ve met here. SiCi:), M’sC, DDG, r_11, and you.

Wasn’t worried about offending you- hell, I’m amazed in my short two weeks here there’s someone I haven’t offended.;)I managed to offend SiCi:) my first weekend here for christs sake…

Stayed out cuz you were doing good. Better than i was doing yesterday. (Although, I am kinda proud of the rapier-like stuff I said to glurge potatochip bag licker and that bird person- not Clucky, the other dipstick who first chimed in with the happy-ass blind Mary Poppins crap;)- I would quite cheerfully flay them and use their hides for skins for my ashiko and what was left could be chew toys for my dogs- I just love my dogs and like to spoil them sometimes)
I just thought you were doing well, ‘defending’ us deadbeats…and I oughtta stay out of it…one doesn’t fix what ain’t broke…

I use yahoo! mess if ya got it- mhpoyes- it’s a mnemonic so I don’t forget- means Mr. Happy Pants, o yes…used to use icq when it first came out, I went offline for a while, came back, saw what they had done to it- bleah.

???That cover it? :wink:

37

Thanks to everyone who’s pulling for me. I’ll update you tommorrow on what happened. I’m due in court at 2pm PST, and normally I don’t post from home, but if things go well, you just might here form me tonight.

38

Okay, Stuffy, what gives? You had better be holding out with good news.

As for you Inor. You need to stop spreading nasty rumors about me being some kind of lady. That could ruin a girls reputation you know.

39

OK for those interested

Child Support

The judge ordered it reduced to $100 per month to cover arrears (I really shouldn’t have any but according to their records it’s $2400) but ceased any further collections until our next hearing in 90 Days.

Custody

Still temporary :frowning: But there’s some progress, sort of. The biggest problem is that she hasn’t been convicted of anything yet. Her case has been continued a few times (she doesn’t fall under our reformed drug laws btw) because of the DA. Basically the judge said if she’s not given a diversion (treament program) before our next court date, then he’ll grant full physical custody to me at that point, with limited and probably supervised visitation rights to her.

There are things I don’t know about the criminal case against her so I’m not sure what will happen. But I think if she were eligible for diversion it would have happened already.

40

pullin for ya…