You have misread what I said - this daughter has been in the same year as my daughter - her “class” for three years. She has not shared a classroom with my daughter for three years. Invitations have been extended to this girl - in writing - but its a little hard to arrange a playdate with a girl whose parents don’t read (per my daughter’s teacher) and can’t use a phone. If you have a suggestion of how we can get this girl’s parents to respond to invitations, I’d be eagar to hear them - the other parents and the teachers have been at a loss - gossip is not always idle.
Are you telling me that these parents have never been to the school in three years? If this kid really has all thse problems, there should be school psychologists/social workers/speech therapists working with the girl and her parents.
By law, she needs an IEP every year. The IEP meeting needs to include her teacher, an administrator from special ed, her parents, an interpreter, someone from the school adminstration, the girl herself, and possibly an advocate. Her former teachers should be more than welcome to attend - perhaps they should be doing that instead of gossiping with parents.
Is this child walking to school or being transported to school? If she is walking, people could actually visit the parents - just because they are “illiterate”, doesn’t mean there is no way to communicate with them… I’m sure they are somehow managing in life - they should be able to figure things out through writing/gesture/drawing…
If they are sending their child to school on the bus, perhaps someone could send a note with the driver… If this child has all the problems people seem to think she has, maybe she isn’t actually passing the note on to her parents. She is only 7 years old.
Does her current teacher have no contact with the parents? If not, she/he certainly shoud be working on that. Is the child going on school trips? If so, I assume she is returning trip permission forms, so there is some communication…
And just because they are deaf and from Somalia does not mean they are illiterate. Perhaps they don’t read English - that doesn’t make they illiterate. Too bad they’ve been labeled by parents (and teachers it seems…) when no-one seems to have even met with them.
Ah, dude, it doesn’t appear the little hearing girl is from Somalia. Just the other kids in the ESL class are.
Turn the outrage dial down from 11, would you?
The “outrage dial” should be exactly where it is… Someone comes on here to talk about her frustration dealing with having a deaf child and dealing with the deaf community… I may not agree with her totally, but I can toally understand…
Then someone decides to use the thread as a way to spread gossip and bitch about deaf people… Seems outrageous to me…
Maybe we could start an attack on the blind next, what the hell, fits about as well as attacking two parents for being deaf.
I see you’ve been a member for a few years, but maybe you haven’t spent much time in the Pit.
Because it’s totally SOP for people to chime in on Pit threads with related (even loosely) complaints. Someone pits a bad waiter, soon you’ll get posts about other bad experiences with waiters, and then some waiter will post about bad experiences with customers, and on it goes.
One post about a SUV driver taking up a compact space…and it’s off to the races for any complaint about parking, inconsiderate drivers, anything at all about SUVs.
That’s just the way it goes. This thread was started with one person’s complaint about hassles he’s had dealing the the deaf community. It doesn’t surprise me one bit that someone else has brought in another complaint loosely related to the main theme.
That’s just the way it goes. “Spreading gossip” and “Bitching”? Yep. That’s pretty much the way it goes in the Pit.
What? You think there should be some double standard? That it’s okay to bitch about SUV drivers, fat people on planes, crying babies, Catholic priests and any other class of people, but Deaf people should be immune? Please.
Why is it assumed that because the parents use ASL (which it is probably actually a different sign language because they aren’t from America) that they are illiterate? That is ridiculous. Also, how reliable are the reports from a 7 year old? Are you kidding me? I see that you are more than willing to believe the worst about these people.
I agree 100%, dammit! - reading comprehension has totally gone out the window with this thread.
ETA: 
:smack: :dubious: :rolleyes:
Because I have been told by the teacher that the parents cannot read or write, which is why they didn’t respond to our invitation. Last I checked, if you can’t read or write, you are illiterate. (Where did you get the idea that the parents aren’t from America - these parents are U.S. born. My daughter goes to school with a lot of kids who get ESL training, some of whom speak other languages, who have the advantage in ESL of understanding the concept of spoken word).
The reports of the seven year old are corroborated by my neighbor who substituted in that room a dozen times last year, and my daughter’s friends mother who volunteered in that room.
Oh, man. I hope not - if the OP doesn’t like Deaf-culture elitism, she’d going to hate Gallaudet. Seriously - my first week at law school, I crashed a protest at Gallaudet because I heard that police were macing student demonstrator’s who’d staged a sit-in in one of the major academic buildings. The students were protesting because, if memory serves, their new university president wasn’t “Deaf” enough - she hadn’t been raised in ASL.
(Also, Gaullaudet’s in a pretty crummy part of town, but I suppose that could change in the next 13 years or so.)
While I have nothing against Gallaudet, and while I wouldn’t discourage my kids from attending there, it wouldn’t be my first choice of schools. Too much of a liberal arts emphasis for my taste (my wife and I are engineers by training); Gally doesn’t have a great track record with graduates finding jobs; and as you pointed out, they’re not exactly leaders in the field of equal opportunity employment.
Actually, I’m a dude. I mentioned my wife several places, including the OP. While having a wife doesn’t automatically mean I’m a male, statistics are in my favor. 
Sorry, man - the reading-comprehension Force is weak in me today.
I teach preschool children with hearing loss. I agree with you 100%. If DEAF folks don’t want to amplify their kids, thats fine. I don’t question how they raise them, how they segregate them. If they want to say they aren’t medically disabled, fine (but give back your SSI money) But don’t you dare tell hearing parents what to do for their deaf child! Whether its teaching them speech, putting on hearing aids, using Signed English (not ASL) or shock, trying Cochlear Implants, its none of your gd business. These parents, usually, want what is best for their child. If it will help their child function at all in the hearing world, why not? Will there be some parents who are only doing this because their child isn’t perfect, oh probably. But the vast majority are trying their darndest to give their child the best. You have no right to interfere.
Is it wrong for me to recommend that when you encounter this, you put your fingers in your ears and say “I can’t heeeeear you!!!”?
[QUOTE]
Yes! I love it!!!
Now, to be fair - it must be understood that cochlear implants are not artificial ears. They do not change the fact that the child is deaf, for when they are not wearing it, they indeed cannot hear. What the implant does is allow sound to make its way to the brain. The sound is not exactly the way we hear it, and the person with the implant must learn how to make sense of it. Some children (esp those with some language, including ASL) do well, and learn to speak, as well as continue to sign. Some children for reasons not entirely clear don’t do well. Some factors include other issues besides deafness (learning disability, non english speaking home), lack of parent follow through (weekly speech therapy, with home activities that reinforce what is taught. This can be a drag), age of child (under 3 is best), motivation of child, and intervention (school programs available). So please, realize that some of the concerns of the deaf community are valid. And its important for hearing parents to realize what the implant does and what it doesn’t do, what will be required of them for many years, and that their child will still be deaf. Aside from that, the DEAF community needs to back off.
[QUOTE=cindyash]
Is it wrong for me to recommend that when you encounter this, you put your fingers in your ears and say “I can’t heeeeear you!!!”?
One more and I’m done (sorry, is there a way to edit after I post?)
>but its a little hard to arrange a playdate with a girl whose parents don’t read (per my daughter’s teacher) and can’t use a phone.
Every state has a relay system, paid for by a tax on phone bills. This system works like a translator. Deaf people have ttys (like keypads) with digital read outs. You can contact the relay system (your local operator should have the number). You give them they name and number and they contact the deaf folk by relay. They they relay to you what the people have typed in. Voila, communication. The fact that the teachers don’t know about this is a crime.
Well, as someone who had to undo the damage from preschool teachers who usually know nothing about deafness and tell parents that they’re doing what’s “best for their deaf child”, when it usually means those teachers can’t sign their way out of a paper bag, I say fuck you.
It’s fun to pretend the cochlear implants and oralism are working when the kids are in preschool, but as they grow up and it isn’t working, they get dumped into “deaf education”.
At that point, they aren’t “successful”… (Sometimes the kids are even 10 or 12 before the “experts” will admit it.)… They have no language, have had no real communication with their family other than pointing and crude gestures, and are playing catch-up for the rest of their lives…
For the last 100 years so-called non-signing or barely signing hearing experts have been telling parents NOT to sign with their children because it will “harm their language skills”…
What really pisses me off is that people with no knowledge of deafness and no knowledge of the deaf community can’t even be bothered to give **real **information to parents of deaf kids and let them make an informed decision. It’s much easier to just tell them that everything will be OK, and of course their child will function and be accepted by the hearing world. Saying it over and over doesn’t make it come true…
At least in Sweden, when parents find out their children are deaf, they are given information on all options, **including **meeting deaf adults, and can actually **make **an informed decision. No such thing happens in other countries.
According to the teacher, the parents are illiterate. It would be kind of hard to type and use a TTY to contact someone if they can’t read or write English.
Actually, the protest at Gallaudet was because the person who was chosen to lead Gallaudet had already been running the high school on campus and closing programs, filling classes with multiply-handicapped students who had no support, and intimidating and losing the support of her staff.
When she was provost of the University, she did nothing to address the fact that very few campus police were able to sign, and one student even died under their watch.
The complaints about her had nothing to do with her signing style, and many oral students on campus were just as opposed to her hiring as president.
Geez, Daffyd, ease up. I am very sorry that your preschool teachers were so horrid, but you know nothng about me. I am fluent in ASL, have taught deaf children for 25 years, and considering the kids who are now in college, I think they got a damn good start. I also am not an ‘oral’ teacher. I happen to believe that every child is an individual, and that the method we use to teach is dictated by the needs of that child. I don’t believe in a one size fits all for any child let alone a deaf child. As for my comments about parents doing what they can for their child - most do, but many do not have the information they need about all options. Thats where I come in. Oh and btw, I don’t think all deaf children should get CIs, and I believe its child abuse for a parent of a deaf child who is obiviously not going to benefit from speech, not to learn sign.
Waenra, sorry, I meant to add to my post and couldnt edit (I guess I have to be a paid member to do that?) There is something new called a video relay. You dial a number that gets you to an interpreter. That person signs what you are saying, and the deaf person picks that up either via tv or computer screen. So if they are illiterate, they probably could use this system.
I just went back and read some posts I missed. I think several things need clarification
Many parents do not learn sign, even as the child is growing up. I know of HS children who need an interpreter to talk to their parents at parent conferences! I don’t think its just lack of ability. I think for some there is a stigma against signing (esp among my Hispanic families). I know one mom who won’t sign because she doesn’t want people to know he’s deaf (I’ve worked three years to set her straight but its not taking). I have others who just think its too time consuming, and don’t realize that they are losing any chance of having a good relationship, or any relationship with this child. And I know others who honestly can’t be bothered. That being said, in 25 years I have seen an increase in the amount of parents and families willing and able to learn to sign, eager for it, even ones who decide that they want to try cochlear implants. This will only continue, I think, I hope
Someone said that deafness is a minimal disability in the grand scheme of things. Deafness is not just being unable to hear. It means not being able to learn language auditorially. If you can’t communicate you lose the ability to connect to other people. Even Helen Keller said blindness keeps her from things, deafness keeps her from people. For many deaf children esp those whose parents do not learn sign, their disability is ten fold, for not only are they learning minimal language, but language ability affects academic ability. …
Which is why the statistic of Deaf 18 year olds reading at a 4th grade level has been historically accurate since the 1800s (many many studies on this; google is your friend). If you do not have the language that a typical child has (in ASL or in speech) you are going to be stymied by learning to read. Think about it - if you can’t hear, how do you learn phonics? If you are comprehending on a 3 year old level, how are you going to comprehend basic written information?
Note btw that deaf children of deaf parents usually read at grade level, because they started learning language early, but via the visual. Also note that I am talking DEAF kids here; many many hearing impaired children are doing great.
Re the Deaf community and CI- there is a range of deafness from mild to profound, and depending on many factors, people might be involved in the Deaf community, or not. Not all people with hearing loss are against CI, in fact I’d suspect its a minority. Please don’t paint the whole group with the same brush.
And finally, Deafie is an insult, esp if used by a hearing person. There is no reason to do this anymore than there is reason to use the n word.
Yes, but only for 5 minutes. Click on the “edit” button below the post. But it’s still a good idea to preview before posting. That way, you can check for coding errors and take a look to see if someone replied while you were writing your message.
Welcome to SDMB! Your points of view add a lot to this discussion.
Dangerosa, did you ever think to ask yourself how it came to be that these deaf parents turned out illiterate and totally isolated from hearing society?
It’s not like deaf kids decide to become illiterate for kicks, or to piss off hearing people. They end up illiterate because educators for the deaf failed them completely. Because their family failed them. Because nobody bothered to teach them to read in an appropriate way.
Oralist-only education is what produced generations of illiterate deaf people. And now that deaf educators are allowing signing, suddenly we find that we can teach deaf kids to read! It’s a miracle! I mean, who would have thought that if you had no way to communicate with a deaf kid it would turn out to be impossible to teach them to read?
Signing facilitates teaching kids to speak, it facilitates teaching kids to read. I can guarantee that these illiterate no-english deaf adults didn’t come from an ASL-only educational background because there was never any such thing.
Although I can’t quite understand how a hearing kid can reach age 5 and have no ability to speak. She would have to have never interacted with hearing people at all until her first day of kindergarten. How does that happen? Are the parents so isolated that they never allowed her to leave the house?