Regarding that link, I really don’t see where anyone has said that ALL deaf people are “militant ASL-only CI haters”.
Nobody’s said it, but it’s an issue they’re obviously sensitive about as a stereotype.
I don’t actually think anybody’s going to go over to that board and start arguing with the posters over there, but I want to take a moment to discourage anybody from doing so. If anybody from over there wants to “set us straight,” they’re welcome to do so. I agree with Sublight, by the way - this has become a very edifying thread. One of my favorite things about the Dope is how often Pit threads start out vitriolic (even if the vitriol is justified, which in this case I think it is), and end up downright educational.
Uh, yeah they did, at the other place.
Edited: Okay, reading comprehension. I see what you mean now (I thought you meant that no one had said what I put in my post).
Well no crap they’re sensitive about it as a stereotype, but she’s inviting them to come over and “educate” us with the assumption that we do believe that. The replies to her seem to agree with her as well; there’s no, “well there’s no one saying that”, or anything. It’s not exactly helping their side to jump to conclusions like that.
In all fairness, my OP was a blanket statement towards a group, when I knew at the time of posting that it didn’t fit all Deafies (not by a long shot). It wasn’t really fair for me to group them all like that.
Not that any Deaf people stepped in when a grown Deaf man points at my daughter and says she looks like a space alien and a robot. Nor had anyone corrected a Deaf mother of three when she told me that I was being abusive and should have my children taken away. In fact, I’ve never seen a Deaf person correct another Deaf person’s dim view of “outsiders” when in view of a hearing person.
But whatever. Interacting with the community “in the wild” certainly hasn’t left a bad taste in my mouth. [/sarcasm]
I like how they do exactly what they deplore us for doing–they lump all normal people (sorry, not going to say “hearing people”–it’s normal to hear. How’s that for reactionary?) as contemptuous and ignorant of the deaf community (or do I mean Deaf?). Who needs educating? BOTH “sides”, maybe? Nah–it’s gotta be the un-disabled who need the educating, :rolleyes: because differently abled people are never bigoted, rude or ignorant. I’ll make a note of it.
I never gave a thought to deafness as a way of life or even as anything but a minor disability (in the grand scheme of things), until that obnoxious woman in my class. She was no ambassador for her “people”. I do not consider the entire deaf/Deaf community to be as obnoxious as she was/is, but now I may be changing my mind… (joke!). 
You know, “Deafies” sounds really condescending.
Hey, that’s just fine: those of the other forum members who’ll actually come to this thread and DO read everything carefully, may realize that she was being a bit too quick to jump to the conclusion that the Board supports that position because we listen sympathetically to someone venting their frustration(*). Those who merely stay over there and exchange smug self-reinforcement, well, they’re outside our reach.
(*OTOH, in the spirit of the mote and the beam, how often have we in our own threads on a myriad other topics, had to read the clarification: *“hey, I wasn’t saying all [Group] are asshats who do [Whatever]; I was saying that [Group]'ers who do [Whatever] are asshats!” * … or its evil cousin *“Don’t tell me it’s only a minority of [Group] who do [Whatever]! So many do it that if you defend [Group] then you must also be supporting [Whatever]!” * . Usually retorted with a vigorous “Oh, now you’re playing word games! HA! Proves me right!” It’s a human foible, I suppose…)
Maybe they’re deftly deafies? (sorry, like to riff on words…)
Man, the stories I (and other RIT alums) could tell. It’s not the majority of them, but there were some doozies that I don’t think I’ll ever forget.
The only time I’ve heard that term was from a friend of mine who worked as a TRS operator (the guy is a blazing fast typist), the guy who acts as the “voice” for deaf people when they call hearing people on the phone. He’d get frustrated with some of the people he had to deal with on the phone and called them “deafies” when he talked about them. The frustration usually stemmed from people who were mentally disabled as well as deaf, who would abuse the system.
I actually joined up to reply to these posts. I admit I am lazy and often not up on current events, but what I am reading I had no idea.
I have to use a capital D and all this stuff,
First off i do not understand what is so diffrent about deftness then any other handicap, and I do not feel bad saying that is what it is, I too have one. Simple it means to me I have something that hanicaps me from function the same as “normal” society. No it does not mean I can not fuction in that society I can and do but it is harder.
First off for anyone to this mother and father how to handle their childs medical issues is wrong. Who the hell do they think they are? I dont care if you are capital Deft or not how dare you.
Second There is a diffrence of being proud of yourself and how you handle your life or problems in it, and being a self rightous asshole, From what i read on that other board those people got a lot of nerve.
I hate groups, it seems to me when ever you get people together in a group like gay or lesbian deftness blind what ever they turn into assholes and individualy they are not. I understand its hard to be diffrent but that is life grow up. Saying not to try to help your child with any illness and yes its a illness we are not supposed to be deft, is stupid. So i guess i should throw away all my meds and not even try to help myself because i should be that proud, its like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I am sorry If my writing is not the best, but i just had to say something i never even knew this all exsisted. aT least i can say i really learned alot following this thread thank you all.
I can answer this. Deafness means that you have a disability hearing sounds. Fairly straighforward disability, right? The problem is that most people use sounds to communicate. And so deafness doesn’t just mean that deaf people can’t hear the environmental sounds around them, it also means that deaf people can’t hear the sounds that most people use to communicate.
Blind kids can speak and understand english, diabetic kids can speak and understand english, kids in wheelchairs can speak and understand english. Most deaf kids can’t, and for the minority that can it’s only with great difficulty.
Imagine you had a group of kids that spoke only Spanish, when everyone else spoke English. And these spanish-speaking kids are isolated and held back because they don’t speak english. So the obvious remedy is to teach the kids english. But suppose they have a disability such that they are physically incapable of learning english, no matter how hard they try. Well, that’s the situation with deaf people.
And so deaf people, since they can’t talk with hearing people, prefer to talk with other deaf people. And the formation of a “Deaf Community” and “Deaf Culture” is just that simple. Deaf people are permanently liguistically isolated due to a physical disability, and that linguistic isolation creates an isolated community. And the distinction between deaf and Deaf is that deaf is a physical disability, while Deaf is the isolated community that inevitably arises from that physical disability.
And frankly, the “Deaf people hate cochlear implants” meme is way overblown. Sure, you can find these people. But in my opinion it’s a result of a lot of misguided deaf education that happened in the past, and the people who went through that crappy grading into abusive educational system become older and rarer, this attitude is going to get rarer and rarer.
As the hearing parent of a Deaf child, I find this terribly offensive and outrageous.
My daughter was born hearing, but lost her hearing progressively. Hearing aids, and speech/listening therapy have not worked for her. She obviously prefers ASL and being around people who understand her. That makes us bad parents? For sending her to a school that understands her needs? No way.
Yes the “average” deaf or hearing impaired high school graduate reads at a 4th grade level, BUT the “average” hearing high school graduate reads at a 5th grade level. ALSO, 90% of those syudents are born to hearing families, have English as their first language (no signs at all) and go to a regualr neighborhood school.
desert-doe, welcome to the Boards, and I hope you enjoy your stay here.
A big resounding “THIS,” every word of it. It’s not the deaf community isolating themselves, it’s the hearing community that unconsciously rejects them. If, like 99% of humans, you’ve ever gotten impatient at the little old lady who’s slow at the checkout lane, even though she can’t help how slow she is, you probably aren’t going to put up with a deaf person very well. Communicating with them is like IMing someone typing at 15 WPM. It’s going to wear on almost anyone’s soul sooner or later. So, by default, they group with each other. If anything, the deaf community has more reason to exist than just about any other.
Not hearing isn’t actually all that bothersome, especially with modern technology such as captions. It’s the isolation part that’s the real disability by several magnitudes.
Of course not. If you think someone in the thread said you did, you read it wrong. I probably came closest, in saying that I’d be pissed if my parents didn’t teach me both ASL and English, but if you tried and it didn’t work, then you’re not a bad parent. You tried, which is all any of us can do.
Now this is actually a really good point, if it’s true. Do you have a link to a published report with these statistics?
I assume you found us through the link to the other board. I’d like to welcome you, and also to warn you that you’ve caught us at our worst - this thread is in a section of the board specifically designated for ranting and raving and “flaming”. We’ve designated this fora - known as “The BBQ Pit” - for that purpose so that we can be reasonably civilized people most everywhere else. I invite you to look around the other fora, which aren’t quite so vitriolic.
I wonder if they didn’t bother or if they couldn’t. Language is one of those areas…you hear people say “Oh, I took four years of Spanish in high school but I never got it.” If signing is really, really foreign (like say, Chinese) maybe they give up because they’ll never get it.
How many “languages” are there that people never get? Music and math also qualify. I also read somewhere that spelling may be linked to a recessive gene. Essentially if you see a banana, it doesn’t matter whether it looks like ( or ), you need to recognize it as a banana. Likewise if it’s lying on the ground. That’s why people have a hard time with things like p, b, d, q—they’re the same thing, rotated but and some of our genes emphasize similarities, not differences.
I read once that some think math ability is linked to a recessive gene.
Oops, went off on a tangent. I’m just saying some (many? most?) people are allergic to second languages and the older you get, the harder it is to learn them.
Oh, and at my daughter’s school for the Deaf, she is being taught bilingually. Her first language is ASL (through extreme effort on my part as her parent) but she is being taught written English (and spoken for the kids who have the desire or ability to learn it). No child, at our school, is forced to try to learn to speak words they can not hear, with a voice they will never understand.
I (and none of the Deaf community that I associate with) do not have a problem with the CI technology. It is the oral only philosopy that generally goes with it, that I disagree with. Oral-only results are generally poorer than when ASL is used, according to all research. That is why I advocate ASL, which is accessable to all children with a hearing loss, at all times, regardless of trainign and technology.
Right, the biggest objection isn’t to Cochlear Implants themselves, but rather the misguided notion that the Cochlear Implant means your kid’s deafness is cured, and therefore should be educated oral-only.
Except CIs don’t cure deafness. Maybe someday in the future we’ll have bionic ears that work as well or better than biological ears. But that day isn’t happening any time soon. CIs mean that some deaf kids have a real chance of getting some receptive english skills, which means a much better ability to vocalize as well. But it isn’t as simple as “Little Johnny’s cured now!”.
I just want to say that if medical science allowed me to gain an additional sense (sonar, perhaps? or maybe being able to see infrared?) I would jump at the opportunity.