Fuck you, "Mom & Pop" stores (VISA related)

The BBQ Pit
21

[QUOTE=BoBettie]
What annoys me most is that the new Visa ads that have everyone waltzing along happily until some asshole uses cash instead of his Visa show him buying a cup of coffee at a donut shop, which was probably about $2. So they show those ads implying “Hey, you can use Visa everywhere- even for your morning cup o Joe, how handy!” then you get there and find out that’s not true because the business is refusing the sale.
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Is the implication of the ad that credit cards are faster? I’ve never had a CC transaction go faster than cash.

22

[QUOTE=essell]
So they should just make a small loss on each transaction but make it up in volume ?
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They should follow the agreement or not have entered into it at all. What they are doing shows their willingness to be dishonest (by not honoring their agreement with the CC co’s) and as a potential customer you know you are dealing with a dishonest person. As a business person they should decide if the CC agreement would increase profit or not and decide on that basis. If they would lose money accepting credit cards, or not make as much then I would see them not accepting them.

[QUOTE=BubbaDog]
They know that. And it looks like they don’t mind the risk of losing customers who use CC’s for small purchases. Apparently the cost of processing coupled with the fee they pay to the CC company is greater than the profit they may make on a smaller transaction.
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Yes I know that many feel this way, I also know it has changed my buying habits away from these smaller independently owned shops to the established chains. In certain areas I travel to I don’t even consider the smaller Mom and Pop stores because I know that they usually have CC min’s. and I just don’t want to deal with it. Now I suspect, but I admit that I don’t know, that selling me lunch for about $5-$7 per day having to accept CC’s makes the merchant more money then me buying from your competitor.

It gets me that Mom and Pop stores are complaining that the national chains and the superstores are putting them out of business when they are the ones who make it more inconvenient to shop there and have higher prices, and usually want to deal in all cash.

23

[QUOTE=NinjaChick]
Is the implication of the ad that credit cards are faster? I’ve never had a CC transaction go faster than cash.
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I have, though not are all set up like this, actually very few, but I have used CC POS devices that as soon as the card is swiped the receipt is printing, and it prints fast. These are usually no signature required sales.

24

I’m in IL and my local smoke shoppe won’t accept a credit card for cartons of cigarettes; only cigars. Now how the fuck does that make sense? I asked him why, and he said it cuts into his profit margin because he’s already selling the cigarettes at the lowest possible profit. But how does that differ if a guy just buys two or three (cheap) cigars?

Is it legal to do that in IL?

25

[QUOTE=Una Persson]
…Jesus Christ, whether it’s malls that close at 5:30pm (right at the time people who work for a living could get to them…like the Marlowes in Hemel Hempstead that we’ve shopped at frequently…what sort of madness are these hours: http://www.themarlowes.co.uk/mainpage.html? Are there really that many households in the area where only one person works, like something out of the 1960’s?), or the the inability of even some high-end places like jewelry stores to take credit cards or cheques (Sure! I always carry £2000 on my person, dumbass!), sometimes England seems to me like a place where shopkeepers are trying very hard to reduce their business and retire early…
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Amen. One of my moments of culture shock was realizing that the British (at least where I was) were not in business for the money. Our town had a movie theater, which was nice, but it only had one showing per day. Lots of cafes (in a seaside, student town), but they all closed at 5.30. The town had a huge drunkenness problem, but in point of fact the only things open after 5.30 were the bars: no shops, no mid-range sit-down restaurants, no cafes, no nothing. I still have fantasies of coming back and saying, “RIGHT. Here’s how capitalism works, son. Have a go.”

26

I’m easily angered, but this is one of those things that really, really, **really ** chaps my ass, and I do everything in my power to see that businesses change their policies or pay the price. Sadly, when I have to go through my actual bank, they often act like they’ve never heard of the merchant agreement.

“Wait, they tried to set a minimum purchase amount? Huh? Is that bad?”

Luckily, Mastercard has that one form that you can use right on the website to report merchants that pull this crap.

It was a major culture shock when I moved to Chicago from the east coast, where I was used to never carrying cash and using my card for everything. It’s a real midwestern trend to set minimum limits, and I’m fighting them one at a time.

One that really burned me up recently was a business that had a freaking engraved plaque on the wall proudly declaring their $10 minimum transaction for using Visa. The audacity of these folks! The idea of them going out of their way to custom order a plaque flaunting the “rule” just blew my mind, and I asked to speak to the manager. I explained to him the merchant agreement to him and advised him to do away with it, or to talk to someone (the owner?) that could. He basically told me that there was nothing he could do, so I reported them through my bank and through the Mastercard website. Next time I went in there, the plaque was gone. :cool:

Something I’ve found that really helps send a message (in ANY situation in life, but especially in a situation like this) is to keep a notepad and pen with you at all times, and to whip it out whenever there’s trouble and you need to hammer home just how serious you are about it.

[scribbling furiously while talking to manager] “So, one last time, you’re refusing my visa card because it doesn’t meet a minimum limit that you’ve set, right? [scribble, scribble] And even though I’ve informed you of the merchant agreement, you still won’t accept it. [scribble scribble] Ok, and the address here is…[looks around, then scribbles some more] And once again, your name is Bob, correct?[scribble scribble] and you’re the manager on duty… [scribble] Bob, what’s the phone number here?”

They usually panic at this point and allow the transaction. I still report them, though, for the next guy that comes along.

And anyone who disagrees with this, it’s this simple: don’t put that Visa sticker in the window and then refuse my transaction for any reason. If I see that sticker in the window, it means I can use my card to pay there, period. Not for a minimum amount, not if I show you my I.D., PERIOD.

27

Hey VCO3 what is the MC web site you use, I have more then a few businesses to report.

28

How many times have we done this one again?

Yeah, yeah, we know that it’s technically against the merchant agreement. But some businesses actually lose money on very small CC purchases, hence saying “fuck it” and requiring minimum purchases anyway. Go whine to Visa, I’m sure they really care - if you can get them to take a break from swimming in their piles of gold a la Scrooge McDuck for a few minutes to listen to you.

So tell me again why you didn’t just buy two six-packs? You do have a refrigerator, don’t you? And presumably you will want beer at some point in the future? And presumably you aren’t so indigent you can’t afford to buy anything but what you need *right this second * at any one time? Or am I wrong?

29

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
Yeah, yeah, we know that it’s technically against the merchant agreement.
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Bold mine, you misspelled the word **explicitly **

30

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
And presumably you aren’t so indigent you can’t afford to buy anything but what you need *right this second * at any one time? Or am I wrong?
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Well, he did need credit to buy beer.

31

[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Hey VCO3 what is the MC web site you use, I have more then a few businesses to report.
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Here you go - report with impunity!

http://www.mastercard.com/cgi-bin/contactus.cgi?template=ContactUsMV

32

[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Bold mine, you misspelled the word **explicitly **
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Whatever baby-boo. But the real question here for all you sufferers of Righteous Indignation is - what the hell do you expect Visa/MC to do about all these many businesses you think you are doing society a grand favor by reporting? Suspend their merchant accounts? Yeah, right. I’m sure that Visa, a major business, will gladly nail itself to the cross with you to prove a point while it ceases to make money.

I suppose they could sue for alleged lost income as a result of the store’s policy, and due to their contract they may have a decent case. But again, it’s a case of why bite the hand that feeds you? Or maybe you were just hoping that they would give the business owners a stern talking-to, and that would settle everything?

33

Here is the link to report merchants to Mastercard:

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html

34

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
But the real question here for all you sufferers of Righteous Indignation is - what the hell do you expect Visa/MC to do about all these many businesses you think you are doing society a grand favor by reporting? Suspend their merchant accounts? Yeah, right. I’m sure that Visa, a major business, will gladly nail itself to the cross with you to prove a point while it ceases to make money.
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Actually I expect them to warn them then suspend them. Remember that the cardholders are part of their income too. And CC companies are trying to get people to make smaller and smaller $ amount on their cards. They want to change consumer buying habits from Cash to Credit for everything if possible.

This is what that paypass is about, no signature required for transactions under a certain $ amount, and I suspect that was the deal with the 5% back on gas/supermarket/drug stores, to get you to use them for smaller transactions (note gas was cheaper when they started the 5% programs).

It is where they want to go, make CC’s the primary method of payment for everything and these min amounts are preventing that.

35

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]

Yeah, yeah, we know that it’s technically against the merchant agreement. But some businesses actually lose money on very small CC purchases, hence saying “fuck it” and requiring minimum purchases anyway. Go whine to Visa, I’m sure they really care - if you can get them to take a break from swimming in their piles of gold a la Scrooge McDuck for a few minutes to listen to you.

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In a sense, businesses don’t lose money on individual transactions. They lose money if the monies in is less than the monies out at the end of the day. Smart businesses who realise this can choose to “lose money” on individual purchases if it will garner them more profits in the long run (eg, selling video game consoles at a loss, but making a lot of profit on the individual games).

Yes, they may “lose money” on some individual transactions, but presumably the fact that they accept CCs are of some benefit to their business, otherwise they wouldn’t accept them. That is the nature of the contract they signed: “You get increased business, and we get a cut.”
Also, if a business accepts credit cards, then the fees as a whole ought to be factored into the prices. It kind of makes me think that the business owners didn’t pln their business very well when they have a fee for purchases under a certain amount. What, didn’t they know that a certain percentage of their customers were going to use a CC? Why didn’t they factor this into their pricing structure?
Oh, and they didn’t have to sign that contract. In fact, when I see a small business who doesn’t accept CCs, I think, “Yeah, stick it to the man! (ie, to the CC companies)”

36

I have a mom and pop store (Guess what it’s called!) I could see it being very tempting to have a minimum on credit card purchases. If you think credit card companies are trying to screw you as the consumer it’s not nearly as bad as what they do to small businesses. Yesterday I nearly cried when I realized the small amount of profit I make on a 40lb bag of dog food was eaten up by credit card fees. This was after I’d hefted about 15 40lb bags. It wasn’t even worth the effort. And a minimum wouldn’t have done me any good in that situation.

37

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
I suppose they could sue for alleged lost income as a result of the store’s policy, and due to their contract they may have a decent case. But again, it’s a case of why bite the hand that feeds you? Or maybe you were just hoping that they would give the business owners a stern talking-to, and that would settle everything?
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Sue? Why would they sue?

And I don’t know what you mean by “stern talking-to,” but I’m pretty sure that the right kind of stern talking-to would indeed settle matters.

“Hi Merchant. What’s this I hear about you requiring a minimum for Visa purchases? Oh, it’s true, huh? That’s against the agreement. Cut it out or we won’t let you accept Visa at all.” You think the merchants will continue to violate the agreement?

38

[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
AU$10 is about US$8.50.
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Actually, a six pack of local rotgut beer is usually about A$13 here, unless it’s on special. Basic imports like Heineken tend to run at about A$17 unless you’re lucky.

39

[QUOTE=Green Bean]
Sue? Why would they sue?
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That’s what I was asking you. They wouldn’t, IMO.

[QUOTE=Green Bean]
And I don’t know what you mean by “stern talking-to,” but I’m pretty sure that the right kind of stern talking-to would indeed settle matters.

“Hi Merchant. What’s this I hear about you requiring a minimum for Visa purchases? Oh, it’s true, huh? That’s against the agreement. Cut it out or we won’t let you accept Visa at all.” You think the merchants will continue to violate the agreement?
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Yes, that’s exactly my point. They aren’t going to suspend merchants’ accounts because that is where 100% of their money comes from.

The issuers and merchants are well aware of this little issue. But frankly, they don’t care, because the issuers are still making lots of money, and the merchants are able to keep their businesses running at a profit. Who loses except the guy who grumbles that he can’t buy a single six-pack on his card late at night? And who actually cares about that guy? Are those crickets I hear?

40

[QUOTE=Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]
In a sense, businesses don’t lose money on individual transactions. They lose money if the monies in is less than the monies out at the end of the day. Smart businesses who realise this can choose to “lose money” on individual purchases if it will garner them more profits in the long run (eg, selling video game consoles at a loss, but making a lot of profit on the individual games).

Yes, they may “lose money” on some individual transactions, but presumably the fact that they accept CCs are of some benefit to their business, otherwise they wouldn’t accept them. That is the nature of the contract they signed: “You get increased business, and we get a cut.”

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Indeed. My husband and I always use PMB mail boxes because we tend to receive lots of large packages, and we find that it more efficient and easier on our odd working shifts than having it sent to the apartment. I end up using the mail box center for every little thing I need done. Copies. stamps, boxes and stuffing popcorn? I’ll pick it up when I check mail. So whoever we pick tends to get a lot of custom from us.

When we moved to Raleigh, we went with a nice mom and pop place that was friendly and had a cute puppy, and was very convenient for us. The first time I bought a book of stamps and pulled out my Visa, I was sneered at and asked if I had any cash. The next time I went in, there was a sign about minimum purchases, and when I purchased something that was below that, they told me flat-out they would charge me an extra fee to hit that minimum.

As soon as the lease was up, we went to a more expensive, more out of the way UPS Store, where they knew my name, and gave me a free stamp when I ran out unexpectedly. Guess who’s made more money off me?