Fuck you, "Mom & Pop" stores (VISA related)

The BBQ Pit
121

[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner]

You have assumed that these extra sales on credit cards will all be in addition to my current sales. I have assumed that they will replace current sales. I promise you that my model is closer to the mark.
Absolute rubbish. The larger supermarkets in the UK even run beer as a loss leader.
It is not feasible to increase prices by one percent.
I don’t doubt that this is the case for some businesses. I promise you that it isn’t for mine, and I’m rather amused that you think seem to think you have a better idea about this than me!
[/QUOTE]

Well, I have owned my own business in America. True, in GB things may be different, but the Op and his rant was about America not GB, so I don’t give a rats ass about small shop owner problems in GB if they are not relevant here. So, please don’t come in here, responding to a thread about small shop owners in America, and when someone calls you on your bullshit, backpedal by claiming things are different for your shop or small shoppes in GB- as that isn’t relevant then, is it?
Visa and MC insist that you will get extra sales. If you don’t, well* fuck *dude, why not just stop using them then? :confused: :dubious:

Yes but- you are not a larger supermarket, which sells several dozen brands of beer, with a loss leader on two of them, *and *tens’ of thousands of other items, with the huge economies of scale that they have. They have no problem with charges as small as a buck here in the USA, so why drag them into the picture? You **have **to know the mark-up for a Mom and Pop store is hwaaaay more than a Super-chain. Or do you? :dubious:

Sure it is. See that item over there, priced at 95 pence? Mark it 96 pence. See how easy that was? :rolleyes:

I asked for a cite, you have not given one.

And now I doubt you are who you say you are.

122

[QUOTE=spooje]
Definitely on the side of the business here. I see no reason they should take a loss on any transaction, especially one where someone needs to finance a six-pack.
[/QUOTE]
That’s not necessarily a valid assumption. I don’t normally carry a balance on credit card (so I’m not “financing” anything), but I use my card everywhere possible. Why?

  1. It’s up to a 30 day interest free loan if no balance is carried. Why WOULDN’T I take it?
  2. I get a rebate on the purchase.
  3. If there’s a dispute, I’m covered.
  4. If someone steals it, I don’t lose anything.

None of these things are true with cash. Frankly, the between 1 and 30 days interest free makes it worthwhile all by itself.

You probably think your tax rebate is “free money” too, right?

123

I own a coffee shop. I take credit cards, and if Ididn’t take credit cards I would not still be in business.

Those who have implied that the credit card companies wont do anything because they would be afraid of losing my business are delusional. They treat small busiensses fromt he standpoint of they are doing us a favor to let us take VISA and MC, and if we do anything outside thier rules we will get yanked because they know that if we don’t take cards, we go under. It’s a fact of life. I cand and do get by without discover and AMEX…Visa and mastercard are by god essential.
Now, as for myself, I’ve rung up credit card sales for less than a dollar, and probably lost money on the sale. We paid a percentage and small per transaction fee. I consider it cost of doing business. I have free refills on coffee and that is built into my in house cup price. Occasionally I have someone stay in my shop for 18 hours and I lose money on the refills on that person. So what, I more than make it up on the people who buy that same cup and never get a refill.

When you sign up for a credit card processing account you have to shop around…If you sell low cost items, you have to go for a low fee, and a higher percentage. If you sell high priced items, you go for a higher transaction fee and a lower pecentage. Get those reversed, and you wind up to trying to sneak in a min charge rule and get spanked when someone reports you.

I personally report anyone who has a min. charge that I run across because since I follow the rules, my competitors should as well.

124

[QUOTE=Rigamarole]
How many times have we done this one again?

Yeah, yeah, we know that it’s technically against the merchant agreement. But some businesses actually lose money on very small CC purchases, hence saying “fuck it” and requiring minimum purchases anyway.
[/QUOTE]

If that’s the case, nobody’s holding a gun to their heads forcing them to deal with Visa. If it’s such a problem, then don’t accept Visa at all.

125

[QUOTE=bdgr]
I
Now, as for myself, I’ve rung up credit card sales for less than a dollar, and probably lost money on the sale. We paid a percentage and small per transaction fee. I consider it cost of doing business. I have free refills on coffee and that is built into my in house cup price. Occasionally I have someone stay in my shop for 18 hours and I lose money on the refills on that person. So what, I more than make it up on the people who buy that same cup and never get a refill.
l.
[/QUOTE]

Now, that I beleive. Sales of under a $1 could very well result in a small loss. But you have a very mature attitude here, and I think you’ll succeed.

126

[QUOTE=spooje]
I see no reason they should take a loss on any transaction, especially one where someone needs to finance a six-pack.
.
[/QUOTE]

They have not yet shown that there is a loss involved and by my math it is very doubtful.

127

I sympathize with small business owners but them’s the rules. Besides, I rarely carry cash anymore as plastic is so much more convenient. And I earn rewards such as free flights and hotel stays. The key is to pay off the balance each month or you will end up paying interest on a 6 pack of beer.

I wonder if the guy in the bar could have avoided the ruckus had he asked the bartender straight up to start a tab for him. If they balked about minimums, then you say, “Sorry, this is all I’ve got. Your sign said you accepted Visa and that’s how I intended to pay.”

128

[QUOTE=spooje]
Definitely on the side of the business here. I see no reason they should take a loss on any transaction, especially one where someone needs to finance a six-pack.
[/QUOTE]

When did I say I needed to finance my purchases? I’m using the card for convenience, which is exactly how Visa markets their cards!

I keep some dollar bills on me for tips; the rest goes on the card.

I tried to avoid the whole issue by using the bar’s ATM (and incurring a charge of my own for doing so - thank you, friendly neighborhood bar!), but the damned thing was broken.

Telling the bartender that didn’t change her mind.

129

[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner]
I suspect that it would have been very hard for an impartial observer to tell you and a belligerent drunk apart to be honest.
[/QUOTE]

Basil Fawlty, is that you?

You’ve stated that your shop is a “hobby”–since it was attached to your house. Perhaps birdwatching would be a better choice for you.

130

[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner]

It is not feasible to increase prices by one percent.

[/QUOTE]

I’m still trying to figure out how this is a problem. Put up the price of every item one penny. Or put up the price of heavier selling items five or ten p and not mark up other ones. There’s certainly more than one solution to making up that commission cost. You don’t have to equally spread the cost onto all your items–just make the math work.

I, too, hate the practice mentioned in the OP, but I’ve never called shops on it, because the shops around here that use it are convenient for me and the last thing I want to do is stir up trouble with them. One is a liquor store that sells microbrews which are not available without driving halfway across Chicago. They’ve done both tactics: one month they were enforcing minimums, another month they added a “service charge” to credit card users. For me, this is not a battle worth fighting, although it does tick me off.

131

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Well, I have owned my own business in America. True, in GB things may be different, but the Op and his rant was about America not GB, so I don’t give a rats ass about small shop owner problems in GB if they are not relevant here. So, please don’t come in here, responding to a thread about small shop owners in America, and when someone calls you on your bullshit, backpedal by claiming things are different for your shop or small shoppes in GB- as that isn’t relevant then, is it?
Visa and MC insist that you will get extra sales. If you don’t, well* fuck *dude, why not just stop using them then? :confused: :dubious:

Yes but- you are not a larger supermarket, which sells several dozen brands of beer, with a loss leader on two of them, *and *tens’ of thousands of other items, with the huge economies of scale that they have. They have no problem with charges as small as a buck here in the USA, so why drag them into the picture? You **have **to know the mark-up for a Mom and Pop store is hwaaaay more than a Super-chain. Or do you? :dubious:

Sure it is. See that item over there, priced at 95 pence? Mark it 96 pence. See how easy that was? :rolleyes:

I asked for a cite, you have not given one.

And now I doubt you are who you say you are.
[/QUOTE]

I bet you’re great fun at parties.

I got involved because I doubted that were is very much difference, bar minor details, between “Mum & Dad” and “Mom & Pop” stores. I haven’t been backpedalling at all.

For a rough idea of the sorts of prices we pay, see http://www.booker.co.uk/flash-brochure/brochure.asp?section=retail

And you’re very perceptive. I’m the Duke of Edinburgh.

132

[QUOTE=kanicbird]
.

I would be totally 100% satisfied with either of these. It s MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH^75 better then the sh!t they are pulling now
[/QUOTE]

I find this attitute (everyone is worse off, but at least we’re obeying the rules) depressing, but not unsuprising or uncommon. I might start a thread about it later today, although I’m not sure which forum I would put it in.

133

[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
Basil Fawlty, is that you?

You’ve stated that your shop is a “hobby”–since it was attached to your house. Perhaps birdwatching would be a better choice for you.
[/QUOTE]

:stuck_out_tongue:

We’re doing as well as can be expected from a village shop, thanks :smiley:

I see the same heron most days when I take the dog for a walk which is enough bird watching for me.

134

[QUOTE=pulykamell]
I’m still trying to figure out how this is a problem. Put up the price of every item one penny. Or put up the price of heavier selling items five or ten p and not mark up other ones. There’s certainly more than one solution to making up that commission cost. You don’t have to equally spread the cost onto all your items–just make the math work.

I, too, hate the practice mentioned in the OP, but I’ve never called shops on it, because the shops around here that use it are convenient for me and the last thing I want to do is stir up trouble with them. One is a liquor store that sells microbrews which are not available without driving halfway across Chicago. They’ve done both tactics: one month they were enforcing minimums, another month they added a “service charge” to credit card users. For me, this is not a battle worth fighting, although it does tick me off.
[/QUOTE]

I agree that I could do this, but essentially this boils down to me making things more expensive for everyone else simply so I can now make some unprofitable sales!

And of course, if I’m making more sales (but no more profit) then I have further pressure on inventory, given the size of my shop.

135

[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner]
I find this attitute (everyone is worse off, but at least we’re obeying the rules) depressing, but not unsuprising or uncommon. I might start a thread about it later today, although I’m not sure which forum I would put it in.
[/QUOTE]

Jesus, I couldn’t agree more. She’d rather the place burn to the ground than have her convenience denied in any way. Hey, starting a business is easy! I’m sure a new store that let’s me get my pack of gum on credit will be set up immediately in the ashes.

136

[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner]
I find this attitute (everyone is worse off, but at least we’re obeying the rules) depressing, but not unsuprising or uncommon. I might start a thread about it later today, although I’m not sure which forum I would put it in.
[/QUOTE]

Thats the thing…everyone is NOT worse off. My customers are better off because they don’t have to stop by an ATM and get money every time they want to buy something, and I am better off because people spend more money with a credit card than they do with cash.

With Cash, you have a real visual of what you are buying is costing you, and if you only have 5 bucks in cash on you, then thats all you are going to spend. With a credit card, you see what you want and hand them a piece of plastic and it’s yours. That means more sales for my shop.

so I price my merchindise accordingly and as long as my competitors have to do the same thing then it’s win/win

137

I hate when stores do this. I rarely carry much cash. A store that does this will likely lose my business forever.

It’s so short-sighted of them. Yes, they may lose money on me this time, but they are losing all of my future business. They assumption is that the small purchaser will always make small purchases and the business is better off without them.

For example, Mom’s Smooties has a $5 cc minimum while Jamba Juice has none. I know I can go into Jamba Juice and buy anything in the store with a credit card. Even a $1 bag of pretzels. I don’t have to think about the total price of my purchases before going in. As a result, I take all my business to Jamba Juice. They may lose money on me sometimes, but they make it back when I take my whole family there and spend $30+. Mom’s Smooties is so fixated on not losing money on each sale that they lose potential larger sales in the future.

138

[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
Basil Fawlty, is that you?

You’ve stated that your shop is a “hobby”–since it was attached to your house. Perhaps birdwatching would be a better choice for you.
[/QUOTE]
I have to say that I think this is a very good point. Small British Shop Owner, you pretty much said that you run your business as a hobby, and that you didn’t buy it to make money. So now you’re not making money, just as planned, but I’m not sure how that is relevant to other stores which we presume base their business model on making a profit.

I also noticed that US and UK differences came up pretty early in this thread.

139

[QUOTE=sugar and spice]
I have to say that I think this is a very good point. Small British Shop Owner, you pretty much said that you run your business as a hobby, and that you didn’t buy it to make money. So now you’re not making money, just as planned, but I’m not sure how that is relevant to other stores which we presume base their business model on making a profit.
[/QUOTE]

Earlier:

*approx. $10, 0000 USD

I now leave you with your regularly scheduled “tell the guy how to do his job”.

140

[QUOTE=CarnalK]
Jesus, I couldn’t agree more. She’d rather the place burn to the ground than have her convenience denied in any way. Hey, starting a business is easy! I’m sure a new store that let’s me get my pack of gum on credit will be set up immediately in the ashes.
[/QUOTE]

Hey, burn it to the ground, expect it to live up to its business commitments, you say potato…