Fuck you, "Mom & Pop" stores (VISA related)

The BBQ Pit
141

[QUOTE=Zakalwe]
I don’t normally carry a balance on credit card (so I’m not “financing” anything), but I use my card everywhere possible. Why?

  1. It’s up to a 30 day interest free loan if no balance is carried. Why WOULDN’T I take it?
  2. I get a rebate on the purchase.
  3. If there’s a dispute, I’m covered.
  4. If someone steals it, I don’t lose anything.

None of these things are true with cash. Frankly, the between 1 and 30 days interest free makes it worthwhile all by itself.
[/QUOTE]
Personally, it seems silly to me to use a credit card for small purchases. It’s overkill, like getting in my car just to go down the block.

But I admit, it makes perfect sense to use a credit card for absolutely everything I can, for the reasons you mentioned. It doesn’t cost me anything and, in fact, rewards me. And who pays for those rewards and advantages? The business owners who accept the cards and have to pay the credit card companies. And their customers, including the cash-only ones, to whom they pass along the costs of doing business.

Something about the situation bothers me, but shrug oh well, that’s the way the world works nowadays. That’s just how things are. Still, that’s why it doesn’t bother me personally if a merchant wants to have a credit card purchase minimum, even if they’re not strictly playing by the rules.

142

[QUOTE=CarnalK]
Earlier:
*approx. $10, 0000 USD

I now leave you with your regularly scheduled “tell the guy how to do his job”.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, missed that. Store is still in UK, though, right?

143

[QUOTE=CarnalK]

Jesus, I couldn’t agree more. She’d rather the place burn to the ground than have her convenience denied in any way. Hey, starting a business is easy! I’m sure a new store that let’s me get my pack of gum on credit will be set up immediately in the ashes.
[/QUOTE]
You know I’d be better off if I just stopped paying for stuff altogether. Maybe I should come in to your shop, spend thousands and then decline all of the charges. I mean, since the rules aren’t important and all.

The bottom line is the bar in the OP signed an agreement and then broke it. They are shits and should be held to task for breaking their word.

Now, a debate might had as to whether or not the restriction creates an economic harm to businesses, but that’s not what’s being pitted here.

144

[QUOTE=Zakalwe]
You know I’d be better off if I just stopped paying for stuff altogether. Maybe I should come in to your shop, spend thousands and then decline all of the charges. I mean, since the rules aren’t important and all.

The bottom line is the bar in the OP signed an agreement and then broke it. They are shits and should be held to task for breaking their word.

Now, a debate might had as to whether or not the restriction creates an economic harm to businesses, but that’s not what’s being pitted here.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, but it’s different, don’t you know? Small retail shops have reasons why they can’t be expected to honor the commitment into which they enter freely and in anticipation of profit.

145

[QUOTE=Zakalwe]
You know I’d be better off if I just stopped paying for stuff altogether. Maybe I should come in to your shop, spend thousands and then decline all of the charges. I mean, since the rules aren’t important and all.

The bottom line is the bar in the OP signed an agreement and then broke it. They are shits and should be held to task for breaking their word.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, yeah. Do you slaver for criminal blood in the jaywalking threads?

on preview: “creates an economic harm to businesses” is the other side of this Pitting, so why the hell wouldn’t it get brought up?

146

[QUOTE=CarnalK]
Yeah, yeah. Do you slaver for criminal blood in the jaywalking threads?

on preview: Plus what storyteller said. “creates an economic harm to businesses” is the other side of this Pitting, so why the hell wouldn’t it get brought up?
[/QUOTE]

Uh… thanks but… I think we’re actually on opposite sides of this one.

See, it’s been my experience that everyone in the world who refuses to honor their commitments, who refuses to follow the rules from which they benefit always has what they believe to be a compelling reason. Every person who cheats on his taxes by failing to declare income, every person who makes a fraudulent insurance claim, every person who ignores provisions of the credit card contract she signed of her own free will, who plagiarizes, who claims working hours not worked, has a story. Every one thinks that the particular circumstances of his or her case are so unique, so special, that it’s OK for them to ignore the rules (rules, in most cases, to which they have explicitly or implicitly agreed).

In my opinion, this is crap. Break your word if you want, cheat if and where you want, and if you can get away with it fine, but don’t kid yourself that you’re doing anything other than breaking your word and cheating. If you’re OK with that, then I’m not going to judge you - but I’m also not going to protect you in the event that your dishonest interest conflicts with my honest interest (even if the conflict is relatively minor). And if you get caught, don’t kid yourself that losing your right to accept VISA is anything other than the fair and reasonable consequences for your choice to cheat.

I worked contracting for eight years. At the beginning of a job, we’d sign a contract with our client. We’d agree to do things a certain way, use certain materials, and in exchange, we’d get paid X. Some clients wanted us to use a high-end grade of paint instead of the medium-grade we more typically used. If we signed a contract saying that we would be paid X in exchange for painting Mrs. Jane Homeowner’s foyer in SuperOutstanding Acrylic, would we be justified in doing it in JustOK Enamel instead because using the former cut into our profit margin? Nope. We’d be expected to raise our price to match our expense, decline the job, or suck up the reduced profit.

I expect the same of the small business owner. You want the ability to process credit cards - and to profit thereby - you accept the obligation to behave in the manner outlined in the contract you sign. I don’t know why this is complicated.

147

Cheques have effectively died already, at least for consumers in the UK (I get the feeling that they are more popular in the US; no one would buy pizza with them here).

Cash is dying.

And it’s being replaced with plastic.

You need to take this into account when considering how free small businesses are to make contracts to take Visas. Or do you need me to spell out how this changes things from a “contract, freely made”?

I don’t have much choice about taking payments in pounds sterling…

148

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Uh… thanks but… I think we’re actually on opposite sides of this one.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I changed that mistake. You sure wrote that lecture on ethics quick.

Anyway, lots of little rules get broken in business and life. It’s a horror show of dishonor but I don’t think this particular one is too big a deal.

149

[QUOTE=CarnalK]
Yeah, I changed that mistake. You sure wrote that lecture on ethics quick.

Anyway, lots of little rules get broken in business and life. It’s a horror show of dishonor but I don’t think this particular one is too big a deal.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t think it’s a particularly big deal, either. Sure, people break the rules all the time. As I said in my last post, I’m not really interested in judging the actions of others - I’ve broken the rules in my time, and am willing to admit that I probably will again, somewhere down the line.

What annoys me is when people try to make a virtue of their dishonesty - when they actually expect others to sympathize, protect or even facilitate their efforts at dishonesty, when they try to convince themselves and others that the consequences to that dishonesty, if they occur, are unfair and unwarranted.

For that I have no sympathy at all. If you’re going to cheat, for heaven’s sake, at least have the self-awareness to acknowledge that you’re cheating, and accept what happens if you’re caught without expecting the people who were following the rules to cry for you.

150

[QUOTE=Small British Shop Owner]
I bet you’re great fun at parties.

I got involved because I doubted that were is very much difference, bar minor details, between “Mum & Dad” and “Mom & Pop” stores. I haven’t been backpedalling at all.

For a rough idea of the sorts of prices we pay, see http://www.booker.co.uk/flash-brochure/brochure.asp?section=retail

And you’re very perceptive. I’m the Duke of Edinburgh.
[/QUOTE]

Well, your Grace, why don’t you try and answer some of my questions, like:
*
Visa and MC insist that you will get extra sales. If you don’t, well fuck dude, why not just stop using them then?

Yes but- you are not a larger supermarket, which sells several dozen brands of beer, with a loss leader on two of them, and tens’ of thousands of other items, with the huge economies of scale that they have. They have no problem with charges as small as a buck here in the USA, so why drag them into the picture? You have to know the mark-up for a Mom and Pop store is hwaaaay more than a Super-chain. Or do you?

Sure it is. See that item over there, priced at 95 pence? Mark it 96 pence. See how easy that was?*

Either you get more sales when you allow charges or you don’t. If you don’t, why do you use them? If you do, does not the additional sales cover the 25 pence charge? Here “Cash is dying. And it’s being replaced with plastic.” you seem to indicate strongly that your sales would decline if you didn’t accept plastic, right?

And please explain again, why you can’t raise prices by 1%. I got a calculator right here, I’ll do the math for you (as long as we are talking New Pounds and Pence, not the shillings and stuff! :stuck_out_tongue: )

And even though you make a small profit, it is not enough to live on, so you are a obby business, which does look at business practices in a different way that a store does that has to support a family.

151

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Well, your Grace, why don’t you try and answer some of my questions, like:
*
Visa and MC insist that you will get extra sales. If you don’t, well fuck dude, why not just stop using them then?

[/QUOTE]

I do use them, but not for sales under a tenner, which is my right.

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Yes but- you are not a larger supermarket, which sells several dozen brands of beer, with a loss leader on two of them, and tens’ of thousands of other items, with the huge economies of scale that they have. They have no problem with charges as small as a buck here in the USA, so why drag them into the picture? You have to know the mark-up for a Mom and Pop store is hwaaaay more than a Super-chain. Or do you?
[/QUOTE]

Gross markup is higher, yes. So?

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Sure it is. See that item over there, priced at 95 pence? Mark it 96 pence. See how easy that was?*

One does not sell groceries for sums such as 96 pence, except perhaps with loose produce.

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Either you get more sales when you allow charges or you don’t. If you don’t, why do you use them? If you do, does not the additional sales cover the 25 pence charge? Here “Cash is dying. And it’s being replaced with plastic.” you seem to indicate strongly that your sales would decline if you didn’t accept plastic, right?
[/QUOTE]

The fixed charge is covered when the sale is over ten pounds.

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
And please explain again, why you can’t raise prices by 1%. I got a calculator right here, I’ll do the math for you (as long as we are talking New Pounds and Pence, not the shillings and stuff! :stuck_out_tongue: )
[/QUOTE]

Refer to above.

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
And even though you make a small profit, it is not enough to live on, so you are a obby business, which does look at business practices in a different way that a store does that has to support a family.
[/QUOTE]

This business would not be viable except as a hobby. That is the reality of the situation.

It could be radically transformed and made viable, but not without changing it from being a village shop. Essentially I’d have to change it into something along the lines of Cartmel Village Shop or Donald Russell. Our products are that good.

I’m not going to do that though!

152

[QUOTE=Zakalwe]

  1. It’s up to a 30 day interest free loan if no balance is carried. Why WOULDN’T I take it?
  2. I get a rebate on the purchase.
  3. If there’s a dispute, I’m covered.
  4. If someone steals it, I don’t lose anything.
    [/QUOTE]
    I’ll add:
  5. I can download my purchase history directly into Quicken, which makes budgeting and balancing my checkbook take 10 minutes a month instead of 30.

I’d gladly pay for that service. Luckily, I don’t have to.

153

[QUOTE=Zakalwe]
That’s not necessarily a valid assumption. I don’t normally carry a balance on credit card (so I’m not “financing” anything), but I use my card everywhere possible. Why?

[/QUOTE]

My apologies. I did not mean to imply that you were a cheapskate or anything.

I just don’t understand why the $10 minimum is considered some kind hardship.

I use my visa and debit card for almost all my transactions now. It’s very convenient for me and I can see all of them online for tracking.

Some places do not accept visa and mastercard. I found this to be very inconvenient when I visited. Had they accepted the cards and required a minimum, that would have been just dandy with me. Woulda saved me some time and addition expense.

154

[QUOTE=spooje]
I just don’t understand why the $10 minimum is considered some kind hardship.
…
Had they accepted the cards and required a minimum, that would have been just dandy with me. Woulda saved me some time and addition expense.
[/QUOTE]
What if you only wanted to spend $5? How can being forced to buy extra stuff you didn’t want be considered saving you additional expense?

155

[QUOTE=Zakalwe]
What if you only wanted to spend $5? How can being forced to buy extra stuff you didn’t want be considered saving you additional expense?
[/QUOTE]

If I was gonna buy one, what’s the harm in buying two and saving one for later?

The way I see it, they are doing me a service by not making me bring cash. I have no problem meeting them halfway with the minimum amount.

Minimum is a hard word to type.

156

[QUOTE=catsix]
You found a bar in PA that charges less than 10$ for a six pack?

I find this incredible.
[/QUOTE]

Geez, I can get a 12-pack Micheloeb Light bottles for $8.99 from any number of convenience stores or grocery stores. What happened in PA??

157

[QUOTE=control-z]
Geez, I can get a 12-pack Micheloeb Light bottles for $8.99 from any number of convenience stores or grocery stores. What happened in PA??
[/QUOTE]

PA has rather restrictive booze laws. You can’t get beer/wine/liquor in grocery stores. You can get wine/liquor in State-owned stores only. You can get a case of beer at beer-stores only. You can buy up to two six packs for take-out at most bars. It is rather odd here.

158

[QUOTE=Khadaji]
PA has rather restrictive booze laws.
[/QUOTE]
That accounts for the higher prices; less competition.

159

[QUOTE=spooje]
I just don’t understand why the $10 minimum is considered some kind hardship.
[/QUOTE]

I want the service that Visa advertises to me and requires its merchants to comply with. How fucking hard to understand is that?

And it’s not a given that just because I want something, I’ll want another identical thing at some point in the future. I could offer up a number of examples, but hell, even beer will do. What if I only drank a couple of times a year? Would I want a second sixer that would go bad by the time I finally decided to drink it?

160

I will now repeat, Visa and Mastercard are having an issue, since people are using their cards for ‘micropayments’. It’s something they aid and abet, but it is bad for the shopkeepers and internet people.

Visa and Mastercard need to get off their ass and fix this issue.