Fuck You, Prop 8 Supporters! Also: Fuck You, Dishonest News Media

[magellan01]

@BrightNShiny

So, we have zero examples of societies which extended SS partners the same rights and status as OS couples

Bleat, bleat, bleat. You’ve been given the examples many times. You just hand-wave them away or change goal posts.

Nope. No goal posts moved. Not by me, anyway.

[magellan01]

@mhendo

@magellan01

This is a helpful post. Here’s how I see it. the word marriage is a big deal in that it describes the man/woman institution, some form of which can be found in virtually all societies for thousands of years. And institution that most believe is the best is the best construct in which to raise children. I think it important that we have some acknowledgement of that fact.

This post is even more helpful.

It demonstrates even more clearly how your beliefs are based on nothing but a nebulous sentiment about “acknowledgement,” without even the vaguest sense of what harm might befall society if the definition of a word is expanded to encompass a few more people.

You have offered no argument about what practical purpose this acknowledgement serves, or about how the critically important man/woman union in our society would be in any way disadvantaged or discouraged by the change.

Implicit in your whole position is an assumption that the man/woman union is so fragile and precarious that simply changing the scope of the word “marriage” will endanger heterosexual unions and bring about the ultimate collapse of society.

Incredible.

Well, if you think that I’ve laid out the arguments in full in this thread, I understand your disappointment. If you’re that interested, do a search. I did not enter this thread what the goal of crossing swords in full, yet again. If I do so again in the future it ill be in GD. I tried to get the power that be to try debates where participation is by invitation. Not that I’d be trying to stack the deck in my favor, that wold be impossible on the SDMB. I’d even be willing to have 8 or 10 people debate against me. But there are too many dopes that try to chime in with either ad hominems or rank stupidity. And with the numbers so skewed, it makes a debate simply an annoyance.

[Kobal2]

@magellan01

What I get is that you’re another not smart person who has a very high opinion of his intellect. Yeah, I get that.

Now, you might want to consider that while one looks back on history, even from 1820, and can see plenty of examples of societies without slaves. So, we have zero examples of societies which extended SS partners the same rights and status as OS couples, and numerous examples of societies that did not allow slavery. Indeed, some of these examples existed in the late 18th and early 19th century, and any American politician would have been well aware of them. So, this oh so cute little exercise of yours falls flat when scrutinized even a little bit. Great job, champ.

And if you can steal a synapse from one of the other posters here who suffer from the same delusions of intellect and double your capacity, you might understand that the chattel slavery found in the U.S. is unlike most of the slavery that existed in the rest of the world. Not even the two strains of slavery are really analogous when you get down to what was so ugly about slavery in the U.S.

Now, let’s hope you got that.

…Wow. I’m speechless. I mean, even while doing one’s best to be more obtuse than a half-degree angle, it takes some skill and, dare I say, some innate talent to miss the point by that much. So, err, kudos to you, I guess.

[BrightNShiny]

@magellan01

@BrightNShiny

Bleat, bleat, bleat. You’ve been given the examples many times. You just hand-wave them away or change goal posts.

Nope. No goal posts moved. Not by me, anyway.

I guess the goal posts must have been moved by the drooling idiot who’s logged in as you then.

[Bricker]

@mhendo

You’ve managed to do it yet again: take a conversation where people are talking about principles and beliefs and notions of what they think is right, and answer them as if they were making legal arguments.

Will you never cease?

Probably not.

But I’ll allow that this particular foray of mine may not have been the most timely. Frankly, there are a bunch of threads that have been following this subject from a number of different directions, and I lost track of which was which. I agree that this comment of mine wasn’t particularly relevant here.

[VinylTurnip]

@magellan01

Now, you might want to consider that while one looks back on history, even from 1820, and can see plenty of examples of societies without slaves. So, we have zero examples of societies which extended SS partners the same rights and status as OS couples, and numerous examples of societies that did not allow slavery.

America! FUCK YEAH!
Hangin’ back and lettin’ others try it first, yeah!
America! FUCK YEAH!
Freedom makes us wet our pants, yeah!
(with apologies to Parker and Stone)

[Gyrate]

@Lobohan

@magellan01

But I see no reason to gamble. The downside is to scary for me.

We should certainly base public policy on your cowardice whenever possible.

Allow me to sum up: You don’t know what will happen. You don’t have any evidence anything will happen. You think it will happen decades from now. Did I mention you don’t have any evidence?

Well, we have the evidence of what happened when they started allowing mixed-race marriages. A few decades have gone by and clearly we can see the downfall of American society that has resulted.

If gays get married, we should be prepared for something like this to happen (sound-only link).

What else are you afraid of?

Muslims. I can only imagine what will happen if he ever discovers the existence of gay Muslims.

We ought to get right on enacting the Magellan is a Hysterical Bitch Act. We may have trouble getting it through the Senate, though.

Not necessarily - Congress is full of hysterical bitches. Getting fear-driven legislation through has never been a problem.

[The_Lurker_Above]

@ElvisL1ves

And yet, where SSM already exists, there is no basis whatsoever for finding any sort of deleterious effect on OSM’s. None. Nothing comparable to the “breakup of the black family”, something which even you know is hardly the result of their own civil rights finally being recognized by “normal people”. :rolleyes:

Could that be why you’ve moved the goalposts out to a comfortingly long timeframe? Hope for vindication despite the evidence?

I strongly suspect, from the ‘angry grampa’ vibe I get from his posts, that he expects to be comfortably dead of old age by this time his ‘predictions’ are falsified.

Either that or he’s planning to point to any one of changes that are bound to happen over a 30-40 year period and call that a ‘decline of OS marriage’. That’s the best part of long-term but vague predictions; you can always find something to point to and declare victory!

[Bryan_Ekers]

Maybe we should let this thread go. Its existence is making all the other threads less special. It’s a mathematical fact!

[LeeshaJoy]

I’m curious, now: what’s magellan01’s stance on UHC? Because his arguments sound a hell of a lot like the anti-reform rhetoric. “Socialized medicine will destroy America! Sure, it hasn’t destroyed any of the countries that have had it for decades, but it will, you just watch for a few more decades!”

[Bookkeeper]

Just to clarify:

Marriage is a mutual social relationship which does not require the imprimatur of a priest, magistrate, or registry clerk to actually exist. The US currently has wide-spread single-sex marriage. There has been SSM to various degrees since the formation of the US (and before). What it has not had until very recently is government/legal recognition of SSM, and the corresponding extension of various legal rights, privileges, and responsibilities to SSM participants.

It is the legal recognition of SSM that is the issue here, the issue of the existence of SSM is a ship that has long since sailed.

[Revtim]

@Bookkeeper

It is the legal recognition of SSM that is the issue here, the issue of the existence of SSM is a ship that has long since sailed.

THAT’s why I had Nazis riding dinosaurs rooting through my trash last night!

[kaylasdad99]

Did the dinosaurs have laser beams mounted to their heads?

'Cos if not, well, I guess that just goes to show that things could have been worse.

[ElvisL1ves]

These iguanas, tell me, are they ill-tempered?

[EVERYNAMEISTAKEN]

@Taenia_spp

Now, for the rant: I am sick and tired of hearing the arguments put forth by the supporters of Prop 8. Straight people can get married: cool. Same-sex marriage: denied. How is it possible to view this as anything other than discriminatory behavior towards the queer community? Alright, fine, you’re a little squeamish about the idea of a same-sex relationship, whether because your religion tells you to or your reptile brain protests. You stop telling me what I can do with my relationships, and I won’t come and tell you how to conduct your religion, deal? The ruling was a significant step forward in queer rights, but goddammit I want my rights and I want my rights now! I am getting sick and tired of self-righteous asshole douchebag bigots on their moral high-horse telling me what I can and cannot do. FUCK YOU!

Yeah, I LOVE you for this post! You are totally right. These idiots think they’re going to get into “heaven” (LOL @ magical fantasy land) by discriminating against other people? And that we’re going to go to “hell” (LOL @ magical demon land) for loving and/or having sex with someone of the same gender?

It makes no sense. I know there are some Christians who support gay marriage though so I don’t mean to insult them all, but it just annoys me that people use religion which is based on fiction as the basis for discrimination.