Well, now, Brutus, old chap, isn’t it entirely obvious that you already do care about a Moore film. Care rather a lot, actually. Really, you Tighty Righties are such an emotional bunch.
Sorry, but this is yet more Radcon bullshit, trying to shup down any opposing voices in American public discourse.
Maybe the film is good, maybe it’s crap, mayber a mix of both, but nothing is gained by the Pubbies.
No good can be served by stifling criticism of the government. Criticism is how we as citizens keep the government honest and keep it from going too far off the rails. Sorry, Brutus, your RadCon PC attitude is un-American. You are every bit as bad as Reeder in your inability to understand the the opposition has a right to be heard. In the United States, we’re supposed to be skeptical of authority, not lockstep followers of any party line.
Reeder, knock off the anti-Bush hysteria because your lack of perspective makes you look like a brainless ninny who is unable to discern between the trivial and the serious.
Frankly, both of you need a serious bitchslap with a book on critical thinking because the two of you are twins in mindless kneejerk reaction.
I’m going to watch Moore’s film with a skeptical attitude, decide for myself how well he makes his case against Bush, and check for myself** with other sources to verify of debunk Moore’s charges.
Go thou and do likewise. Selah.
I want to see it!
I hear Shrek is in it…
You gotta love capitalism, huh?
How before a website is dedicated to ripping this movie apart (assuming there isn’t already one)?
Hardly. Voting is how we (try) to accomplish that. Criticism is but a tool that may (or may not, in the case of Moore) serve to help inform voters.
So now calling out people as ‘un-American’ is ok, just so long as you have quaffed the anti-Bush Kool Aid, huh? After all, only the ‘loyal opposition’ actually calls people ‘un-American’, though they cry and rant about how the Right is doing that. Funny.
And ‘RadCon’? Do you morons just sit around all day to think these up? I find your DiSh attitude to be amusing.
Moore is just a jerk. If he was a poster here, I’m sure he’d get banned in no time.
And no one would be arguing for a first amendment violation.
I don’t understand the Moore hatred. BFC wasn’t an anti-gun documentary. Rather, it asks why we have such a high homicide rate - and it doesn’t blame guns.
That’s total bullshit. Why do you think we have a First Amendment, anyway, and not just allow freedom of speech three months before an election. Free debate strengthens any position, and, if it goes against an administration enough, can drive Congress to more reasonable positions. This has happened in administrations of both parties.
If you are claiming that freedom of speech is not a political good, except to drive voting, you are antiAmerican, independent of party.
BTW, I suspect theater-owners want to show this movie because of critical acclaim, from Cannes, and mostly because it is going to make a lot of money. Anyone trying to stop them by threats or preventing people from entering, are no better than thugs and should be locked up for a long, long time. The First Amendment should not only prevent the government from keeping people from speaking, it must also force the government to stop the suppression of speech by illegal means.
You’ve got much to learn, pal. The freedom of speech is enshrined in the Constitution for a reason, to allow public debate about issues important to the public good. Debate cannot be truly free if it doesn’t allow for open criticism of the government. There’s no point in voting if the citizenry is uninformed on the issues on the ballot. that’s why we have newspapers, TV, radio, and the Internet–you know, the marketplace of ideas that allows for discussion of every perspective, not the ones handed us by our masters.
WTF are you talking about? I’m not calling you un-American for your political stance, something you seem unable to understand. contrary to what you’ve been told by Fox News, we have room in this country for many political camps. I’m calling you un-American because you seem to demand lockstep obedience to the government. Sorry, pal, if you want to live under that sort of authoritarian regime that squelches dissent, move to Saudi Arabia or North Korea. This is America, where we get to speak our minds. If you want to shut down all points of view that contradict your own, if you disapprove of the freedom to speak and more important to be heard, then you, sir, are no American.
“RadCon”= Radical conservative. It’s been in public use for quite a while now. I use it in oppostion to real conservatism, which treasures liberty, small government, and no deficit spending. Real conservatives want to conserve American values, to preserve the American way of life. Your lot, the RadCons, are revolutionaries that embrace economic and social ideologies that are as loopy as anything dreamt up by their counterparts on the left.
You people have stained the honorable name of the Republican party.
And what’s DiSh mean?
Does that mean he’s going to dance? 'Cause I don’t really need to see that.
Anyway, I’m a Moore fan, although I don’t take him too seriously. That said, I do have to applaud these far right trogolodytes for trying to get his film banned, because all that does is grant him more credibility.
And Moore really needs all the credibility he can get.
Well, that’s true. None of us will deny that.
There’s also no denying that there’s an awful lot of misinformation in his films as well.
Mix together lies, truth, and a biased worldview, and you have some pretty potent propaganda. At the risk of invoking Godwin, it is this mixture that made Mein Kampf such a powerful piece of political rhetoric.
Are you comparing anti-Bush people to Jim Jones followers? People who question the government are mindless cult zombies? I don’t think so.
The Right is being terribly un-American nowadays. I don’t think they (you) know what it means to be a patriotic American.
Exactly. And you are going to tell me with a straight face that a Michael Moore flick is going to serve to ‘inform’ the electorate? Puh-fucking-lease. That disgusting fat-body lives on lies, deceit, and time-honored propaganda techniques.
By the way, you do know who Michael Moore is, don’t you? You know, the guy who is known to tell a fib or two in his books and movies? Are you sure this is they guy you want to hold up as an example of ‘informing the electorate’?
That’s some red herring you’ve got there, kid. Nothing was said about ‘shutting down all points of view that contradict’ my own. (Except by you, of course.) Tell me, is it easier ‘debating’ your opponents when you just make up their positions?
DING DING DING DING
And br’er Voyager proudly holds up his ticket on the DipShit Express, earned by yet another calling of ‘un-American’! Who will be our next lucky winner?
Yes. Well, most of them. A few may actually have intellectually honest opposition to the man, but not many.
No. Well, not generally. Michael Moore fans are an exception to the rule.
Damn, the Dipshit Express is filling up awfully fast…lets see…OK. You are up in 12B, next to Reeder.
You’re missed Godwin a while back; Nazis already came up just a few posts into the thread.
Which shows why I’m not particularly saddened at the thought of Moore’s movie not getting wide distribution. As we’ve seen in this thread, this kind of propaganda does nothing to promote rational thought, it simply polarizes people into an “Us vs. Them” mentality, shouting stupid labels at each other in an attempt to dismiss or undermine the other person’s entire viewpoint. And every single mention of Moore quickly devolves into the same thing; in a thread a while back about Moore’s simple-minded cry for attention at the Oscar ceremony, I had a poster repeatedly dismiss everything I said by saying I was “pro-Bush.”
The reason so many of us want to “overthrow the government” is because they’ve gone past the point of simple political disputes and into the realm of doing great, but hopefully not irreparable, damage to the values and principles of the nation. Their policy has encouraged racism, xenophobia, homophobia, oppression, mistrust, and fear. They’ve done this by suppressing and manipulating information, and painting their enemies in broad strokes.
Moore’s already admitted to suppressing the details about his distribution deal for the movie. This was in order to have people shrieking anti-corporation (Disney) rhetoric and claiming Moore’s right to free speech was being impunged. That’s manipulating people using fear, and that’s one of the tactics of the Bush administration.
Are you aware of the contents of newspapers during the time the Federalist papers were written? Do you think the Founding Fathers were only protecting speech with no error? And I rather suspect the Bushies are crapping in their pants about it just because it is going to inform the electorate. How much of the electorate knew what Bush was doing when he heard about 9/11, and what he did afterwards?
Know all about that, and my conclusion is that Moore is more truthful than most presidents, regardless of party, and especially more truthful than the current one. But the whole point of free speech is that Moore makes movies, rightwingers make web sites, and the people have free access to information to decide.
BTW, I saw Triumph of the Will in college, and nobody was out protesting - which is as it should be. You have a problem with that?
I said
Since you believe I am calling you an unAmerican, you must therefore believe that freedom of speech is not a political good. True or false? Nice of you not to quote my statement.
So most of those opposed to Bush are like mindless relgious cultists, while those who swallow whatever he says are open minded. War is Peace. You would have made a damned fine Leninist. Ignorance is Strength. We’ve heard it all before.
This is WAY amusing. Please kids, carry on. :rolleyes:
I guess I may just be the only one who doesn’t actually believe everything he reads/watches/sees.
There is a veneer of absolute bullshit over everything media. The Bushies believe they’re right, the Lefties think they’ve the market cornered on truth, when in fact, very little is what it seems, and the pisser is, no one is ever likely to know the REAL truth (whatever THAT is).
Yeah, Moore films may be chock-a-block with nonsense and drivel, so is the President (and ftr, it doesn’t matter which president). If we ever stopped fighting long enough to turn an examining eye toward the ACTUAL enemy (which, IMO is the bureaucracy under which we all live) the truth (whatever it is) would reveal itself.
But alas, we’re locked in a life and death struggle to be the one most right about a given topic, and all these cocksuckers are making a killing behind keeping us fighting amongst ourselves.
Sad.
Airman? Is that a serious statement? Religion has made FAR more charlatans rich than the media has. If Benny Hinn can fill stadiums, STADUIMS! Moore should have no problem filling seats in movie houses.
Moore’s movie is scheduled for wide distribution. Do you mean that it’s ok if theater owners are terrorized or intimidated into dropping the film?
Cite?
Right. Well, are you quite finished with the drama? Great! Now show me where the gov’t is censoring Moore’s speech. What’s that, you can’t? You mean that all involved parties are private citizens, under no obligation to obey each other if they don’t want to? Well fuck, I guess you really don’t have an argument after all!
Brutus, you’re funny. :wally