Fuck you, Rowan County (KY) Clerk Kim Davis

[magellan01]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Why should the county pay? The county has not done anything wrong and has no power to correct the situation. The wrongdoer here is an individual official who is committing misconduct.

Only in her role as clerk. If you went to a car wash and one of the guys drying my car scratched it or broke off the mirror, who would you sue?

[Skywatcher]

@magellan01

If you went to a car wash and one of the guys drying my car scratched it or broke off the mirror, who would you sue?

Nobody. Not my car and this is an insurance issue, anyway.

[Boyo_Jim]

@magellan01

From this, it sounds like they share her convictions. If they didn’t, I think they follow the law and put her in an even tougher spot.

From this what?

[xenophon41]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

I am pretty sure NPR has it wrong. I found that too (as well as the relevany KY constitutional provision allowing the KYSC to govern clerks), but those procedures are for clerks of the circuit (not county) courts. In most states those functions are subsumed in one office, but Kentucky apparently has separate ones. So the circuit clerk rules do not apply to her.

You’re right. Surfing the rather unreliable waters of the ky.gov site, it looks to me like accountability for county clerks in Kentucky rolls up to the Sec. of State, but I’m by no means sure of that.

[dasmoocher]

@tomndebb

No. She is being threatened with punishment for allowing her personal prejudices interfere with her job while she hypocritically cries “Religion!”

If her religious beliefs played a role in her job performance, she would not issue marriage licences to couples when one or both had divorced–to say nothing of her refraining from divorce and remarriage, herself. Jesus explicitly condemned divorce. Jesus explicitly declared that marriage after divorce was adultery. Jesus never even mentioned homosexuality.
Thousands of Christian and Jewish clerks are issuing marriage licenses throughout the country without failing their religious beliefs and, (for those offended), with nothing worse than some under-their-breath muttering. She is simply ecstatic over the publicity she is getting and is milking her fifteen minutes of fame for all that it is worth.

@Czarcasm

I think Dan Savage has an interesting take on it: that she is doing this to get on the right-wing lecture circuit, with perhaps a ghost-written book thrown into the deal.

@magellan01

For instance, I’d say that many Christians would say that they make an allowance for divorce, but not adultery. So someone who is divorced can still take a moral stand against adultery.

From Czarcasm’s link:

US News & World Report:

The Kentucky county clerk facing potentially stiff penalties for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses has been married four times, raising questions of hypocrisy and selective application of the Bible to her life. The marriages are documented in court records obtained by U.S. News, which show that Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis divorced three times, first in 1994, then 2006 and again in 2008. She gave birth to twins five months after divorcing her first husband. They were fathered by her third husband but adopted by her second. Davis worked at the clerk’s office at the time of each divorce and has since remarried.

Um… wait: Kim Davis <snip> got knocked up by her third husband before she divorced her first husband and somehow managed to talk her second husband into adopting the kids she had by the man who would eventually become her third husband… and she’s now on her fourth husband? The Hapsburg family tree is less complicated. But, hey, it all sounds perfectly biblical… or it would if we were talking about the Book of Mormon, it was 1890s, Kim Davis was a bearded man, and if Davis hadn’t divorced husbands number one, two, and three before marrying husband number four.

So, she’s an adulterer, but, hey! Jesus forgives her–just not the gays.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Czarcasm

I think Dan Savage has an interesting take on it: that she is doing this to get on the right-wing lecture circuit, with perhaps a ghost-written book thrown into the deal.

That’s actually quite a good motivation - she can do some minor contempt-of-court time, eventually get impeached or removed or whatever and then cash in, in a way that is quite likely more lucrative and more interesting then her otherwise unremarkable civil service job. She should be doing all she can to keep her name in the papers (and even on titles of message board threads like this one) and if that means bitter-ending it, so be it.

Heck, I’d consider doing a few months of soft time if the end result is being a famous millionaire. The downside is that I’d have to keep reassuring people who oppose gay marriage, i.e. I’d probably have to talk to them and be in the same room with them and that’s all ewww and shit.

[Bridget_Burke]

@Bryan_Ekers

That’s actually quite a good motivation - she can do some minor contempt-of-court time, eventually get impeached or removed or whatever and then cash in, in a way that is quite likely more lucrative and more interesting then her otherwise unremarkable civil service job. She should be doing all she can to keep her name in the papers (and even on titles of message board threads like this one) and if that means bitter-ending it, so be it…

Ted Cruz put on quite a dog & pony show in Idaho recently–with various “victims of religious persecution.” Like the couple who refused to rent the former church building they ran as an event venue for a gay marriage. Then they went out of business–although I don’t recall any violent events.

I don’t think you’d make money for long, but some people will do anything to avoid work…

[Fenris]

@magellan01

Whatever can be legally done. I am not a lawyer, and certainly not one with special knowledge of Kentucky state law. But it is my guess, the there might be some way for the Governor to declare a crisis and appoint someone else and fire her. Another idea is for the Governor, or someone not quite so high to create a new position which handles marriage licenses, taking it out of her hands. At least couples wouldn’t be inconvenienced while things play out with her.

I’m open to other solutions. Have any?

Sure–toss the current dumb bitch in jail. There has to be a succession plan for if she dies or something. Trigger it. Then take the next potential troglodyte. Have a gay couple try to get married. If he signs their license, he’s ok. End of problem. If he refuses, toss him in jail for contempt. Trigger the succession plan again. Rinse and repeat until either A) all troglodytes are in jail or B) All troglodytes who are in line for the County Clerk’s job who are ahead of a non-troglodyte are in jail.

This way, long run, everyone wins. Gay couples can get married. Troglodytes rot in jail, some flunky with independent thought (or respect for the law or at bare minimum, a sense of self-preservation) gets a cushy government job that he can actually do. The trade off is that in the very short term, gay couples have to wait a little longer to get married in that county. The plus side is that when they do get married, they’ll be living in a community with less troglodytes.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@magellan01

Only in her role as clerk. If you went to a car wash and one of the guys drying my car scratched it or broke off the mirror, who would you sue?

The business. But there are lots of reasons why the business would be liable to you, or at least vicariously liable: respondeat superior, negligent hiring/retention, failure to supervise, failure to train…

Most of those do not apply to Rowan County and its elected - not appointed - clerk. That is not to say the county would not be liable (though for various complicated sovereign immunity reasons, I don’t think it is), just that it’s not the wrongdoer here.

[kaylasdad99]

@magellan01

I agree with you. I think you’re giving the point I made that you cited more weight than I am. I do not think it excuses her behavior, only that it is a small point in her favor that she shouldn’t be thrown in jail. I agree that she should not hold that position. Maybe your point about her violating her oath can be ground for her removal. I’d fully support that.

You appear to be advocating a stance that jail should not be available as a penalty for contempt of court. Either that, or that claiming religious motivations should be an inviolable shield against contempt of court charges.*
*Or A shield, anyway. The degree of inviolability we can discuss elsewhere, if necessary.

[elbows]

So she shouldn’t be forced to act in opposition to her religious beliefs, is that your position?

So you’d be okay with Muslims insisting on following Sharia Law I can assume, yes?

Or does this only apply to a Christian’s moral code?

Because the same thing that stops Muslim’s being able to cite their religious convictions to okay stoning adulterers and honour killings is that such actions are contrary to the laws of this land.

I don’t see how you can excuse one and condemn the other. Either religious convictions/beliefs trumps the laws or it doesn’t, it seems to me.

[Cartooniverse]

@Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge

Sadly, this bitch is probably a hero to most people in Kentucky.

And Alabama. Where the great majority of county clerks who are refusing to obey the law of the land serve.

Kinda cuts to the very core of what America is, yanno?

I could see this becoming a tidal force influencing the next election.

[YogSothoth]

@elbows

I don’t see how you can excuse one and condemn the other. Either religious convictions/beliefs trumps the laws or it doesn’t, it seems to me.

“Because this is a Christian nation”, is what they would say. Washington himself was an ordained minister and the Declaration of Independence was written on a piece of the original KJV bible whose page was torn out for that purpose. After the signing they all praised Jesus and went to eat a light brunch. Also John Hancock changed his name to John HanbabyJesusmaker

[raventhief]

A different kind of clerk in a different era… I found this story a littel more heartening than the stupid bitch in Kentucky.

40 years ago, a gay couple applied for a marriage license. She approved it.

[D_Anconia]

@kambuckta

I’ve read this thread, and have even watched news reports IN AUSTRALIA about this travesty, yet you somehow seem to think it’s a bit of ‘recreational outrage’, that unless you’re gay and wanting to get married AND live in that particular county in Kentucky it shouldn’t affect you?

How does this “travesty” affect you, at all?

[running_coach]

@D_Anconia

How does this “travesty” affect you, at all?

Because if that kind of cancer is allowed to flourish, it affects everyone. Not that you give a shit.

[raventhief]

You’re right; if a civil rights violation doesn’t directly impact you, it doesn’t matter.

[Alan_Smithee]

**D’Anconia, **do you care about anything that doesn’t directly affect you personally? If so, why? If not, are you at least aware that this is considered a grave defect by the rest of humanity?

[running_coach]

@Alan_Smithee

**D’Anconia, **do you care about anything that doesn’t directly affect you personally? If so, why? If not, are you at least aware that this is considered a grave defect by the rest of humanity?

D’Anconia goes to sleep dreaming of nuzzling the mummified crotch of Ayn Rand.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Alan_Smithee

**D’Anconia, **do you care about anything that doesn’t directly affect you personally?

He took the name of an Ayn Rand character so I’m guessing… no.