Fuck you, Sky news,they weren't prostitutes, they were women...

[GorillaMan]

@FinnAgain

• “A local serial killer has killed 5 doctors, all in private practice. Evidently the killer waits outside of their places of business and ambushes them after all other employees have left for the night. All doctors are advised to have a heightened sense of their surroundings and not to travel alone if they can help it.”

Hardly the same as the Sun article linked to above: “A town’s vice girls were in fear of a Ripper-style killer…Last night local sex workers were terrified that a prostitute-hating killer was on the prowl”.

Yeah, that’s a responsible level-headed warning to other sex workers. :rolleyes:

[brianjedi]

@GorillaMan

Hardly the same as the Sun article linked to above: “A town’s vice girls were in fear of a Ripper-style killer…Last night local sex workers were terrified that a prostitute-hating killer was on the prowl”.

Yeah, that’s a responsible level-headed warning to other sex workers. :rolleyes:

It’s a bit melodramatic, yes, but I don’t see any evidence that it’s an untrue characterization of the situation.

[GorillaMan]

@brianjedi

It’s a bit melodramatic, yes, but I don’t see any evidence that it’s an untrue characterization of the situation.

I don’t see any evidence that it’s a true one, either.

[brianjedi]

@GorillaMan

I don’t see any evidence that it’s a true one, either.

Without getting into a debate on the use of anonymous sources, there’s this:

One hooker, who did not want to be named, said: “We’re all afraid there’s a maniac on the loose. People feared the worst when Gemma and Tania went missing.

“Now another body’s been found, that fear has turned to panic.”

[GorillaMan]

@brianjedi

Without getting into a debate on the use of anonymous sources, there’s this:

It’s easy for reporters to fish for quotes like those…

Sun reporter: ‘Would you say people are afraid that there’s some kind of maniac out there?’

Interviewee: ‘Yeah, I guess.’

Sun reporter: ‘You may not yet have heard, but another body has been found. Do you think people’s fears might turn to panic?’

Interviewee: ‘Possibly.’

[Dewey_Finn]

@GorillaMan

@williambaskerville

In fact, they were very young girls really, if I saw them standing in the street, my instinct would be to get them home safely.

@Dewey Finn

They were 19 and 25 years old. At what point do they stop being “very young girls” and graduate to being adult women?

I don’t know. At what point do they graduate from being young women to being prostitutes?

My point was that whether or not it’s offensive to identify the murder victims as prostitutes, it is objectionable to identify 19 and 25 year old people as “very young girls.” Perhaps in the UK, you can call a woman a girl without causing offense, but in the US, I’ve been criticized for doing so, so I’m more careful.

[GorillaMan]

For those who can’t see how some of the reporting has been insensitive, here’s a quote from one of the women’s parents:

Mr and Mrs Adams, who raised their daughter in a comfortable home in the village of Kesgrave, near Ipswich, did not know she was a prostitute until she was reported missing on November 15. “I don’t want people to think of her only as a prostitute,” Mr Adams said.

“The Gemma we want to remember was a loving, beautiful and wonderful girl. It was the nightmare of drug addiction which drove her to work on the streets. We are going through hell trying to come to terms with it. It has been shock after shock.”

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20912138-2703,00.html (An article which still has a ridiculous headline, unfortunately)

[GorillaMan]

(Bugger, just realised my ‘location’ is rather inappropriate for this thread…)

[Rayne_Man]

@GorillaMan

(Bugger, just realised my ‘location’ is rather inappropriate for this thread…)

Excuse me sir , can you account for your movements over the last few days. Just routine, you understand.

[Ensign_Edison]

Meltdown?

Seriously?

What the fuck has happened to the Pit?

And “well into”? I made two posts directed at a single poster’s inability to pay attention to his own claims. Gee, Finn, I never thought of you as a sensitive MPSIMS type. This brianjedi is obviously a joker, but you I never thought would make a big deal out of someone calling someone else a fuckface in the Pit.

[BrainGlutton]

Come to think of it, why is it in any way disparaging or dehumanizing to identify a prostitute as such? Prostitutes deserve respect for what they do.

[GorillaMan]

@BrainGlutton

Come to think of it, why is it in any way disparaging or dehumanizing to identify a prostitute as such? Prostitutes deserve respect for what they do.

I’m assuming this isn’t a massive whoosh, in which case read the quote from one of the parents I gave above. You might be on the opposite side of the moral spectrum from much of the media, saying that prostitution itself is no problem, but this doesn’t come any closer to a solution to the fact that merely using the word ‘prostitute’ has huge implications.

[FinnAgain]

@GorillaMan

Hardly the same as the Sun article linked to above: “A town’s vice girls were in fear of a Ripper-style killer…Last night local sex workers were terrified that a prostitute-hating killer was on the prowl”.

“A town’s sawbones are in fear of a Ripper-style killer. Last night, local docs were terrified that a medical-professional-killer was on the prowl.”

Nope, sorry. Still not seeing the cause for annoyance, outrage, or notice.

@GorillaMan

For those who can’t see how some of the reporting has been insensitive, here’s a quote from one of the women’s parents

Ah yes. Grieving relatives, the best source for an objective view of the salient bits of a news story. Which is more important, allowing other prostitutes to know that some Ripper-wannabe may be stalking them… or letting her parents cling to their illusions?

@GorillaMan

You might be on the opposite side of the moral spectrum from much of the media, saying that prostitution itself is no problem, but this doesn’t come any closer to a solution to the fact that merely using the word ‘prostitute’ has huge implications.

Which gives people better safety information?

-"Killer targets prostitutes who walk the streets, high class callgirls currently not being targeted. "
-"Killer targets people. Those people happen to be women. One of the murdered woman’s parents said that she was ‘a loving, beautiful and wonderful girl.’. "

Does it make more sense for “loving, beautiful and wonderful girls” to be worried, or prostitutes, GorillaMan?

[Weirddave]

@Dewey Finn

They were 19 and 25 years old. At what point do they stop being “very young girls” and graduate to being adult women?

Why, that’s simple. When you no longer want to play the victim card.

[Zabali_Clawbane]

Well, technically they were “victims” of murder, and that can’t be changed any way you slice it. Wasn’t one of the possible victims only 14?

[Malacandra]

@Zabali_Clawbane

Well, technically they were “victims” of murder, and that can’t be changed any way you slice it.

Possibly a poor choice of idiom, Zab. :dubious:

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Malacandra

Possibly a poor choice of idiom, Zab. :dubious:

Not when coupled with the post prior to mine. Women young and not so young (no matter what they did for money) are being killed, then thrown away like trash. Their families are coping with this horror, and so the term victim does apply. I felt the prior poster was contributing to pulling this thread more off topic. YMMV

[Dead_Badger]

@GorillaMan

For those who can’t see how some of the reporting has been insensitive, here’s a quote from one of the women’s parents:

I don’t understand how the case could possibly have been reported without mentioning this fact, though. A serial killer is targeting people who are prostitutes. This fact needs to be reported, and the thread linking the victims is of massive importance. Did you object to the reporting of Tom ap Rhys Price’s murder, in which he was invariably described as “City lawyer”? If not, why not? After all, he was more than just a lawyer, and in that instance it’s not even like his lawyeriness was central to the story, as these women’s occupation is.

Yes, this must be horrific for Mr and Mrs Adams, but the papers failing to report the basic facts would not bring their daughter back, nor would it even have prevented them from discovering the truth. Whether people see their daughter as “only a prostitute” is between the readers and their personal prejudices, for which the papers are not responsible. If the papers pander to such prejudices, then they might be held in contempt, but I see no real evidence that the Sky article linked in the OP is guilty of any such thing. I don’t see the point in being surprised that the Sun is all agog with lurid headlines; as well be surprised by death or taxes. But I fail to see how any sensible reporting organisation can omit such a crucial fact of the story, or even reasonably reduce its prominence when it is so obviously the point linking so many murders.

@Zabali_Clawbane

Wasn’t one of the possible victims only 14?

Nope. Ages 19 to 29, with one unidentified as yet.

[Garfield226]

@Zabali_Clawbane

Not when coupled with the post prior to mine. Women young and not so young (no matter what they did for money) are being killed, then thrown away like trash. Their families are coping with this horror, and so the term victim does apply. I felt the prior poster was contributing to pulling this thread more off topic. YMMV

My guess is Malacandra meant “any way you slice it.” YMMV

[Zabali_Clawbane]

@Garfield226

My guess is Malacandra meant “any way you slice it.” YMMV

Ah, well that is the first phrase I grabbed, and I think unconciously I did so because I wanted to cut through the bullshit and get to the core of the matter.