The laws were written to protect the children from stupid, irresponsible parents. If everyone had enough sense in their tiny little pea-brains to buckle up their kids, there would be no need for the law, now would there?
If I see your kids unbuckled or I witness you smacking your kid around in public (on the level of battery, not a swat on the behind), you bet your damn ass I am going to say something to you.
Don’t like it? Don’t let me see it. Simple as that.
One of my kids unbuckled the seat belt once, and essentially said he didn’t care if I got a ticket. When reminded of my seatbelt rule ( anyone (my kid or someone elses) who causes me to get a ticket will pay the ticket,even if it takes a year of every Hallowwen dime and tooth-fairy dollar-and they know I’ll do it)he kept quiet and never said it again.While I won’t say he never unbuckled again ,it’s momentarily,and he rebuckles without me having to pull over,mostly because
(lost a line on my previous post)
He rebuckles mostly because he doesn’t want to pay the ticket.
I know someone who gets so enraged by this, she’ll scream at the parents “I HOPE YOU HAVE LIFE INSURANCE ON THOSE KIDS!!”
Diane , I’m not arguing a point of law, I have said that I know the law and obey it, and insist that everyone in my car wears the belt. BUT, I am talking about other people telling me what I need to do, and feeling it is their place to do so. This ‘takes a village’ mentality is so much nonsence - it takes a parent (two if you’re lucky) to raise a child. Fuck the village! Keep out of my life, as I’m sure you want me to keep out of yours in other matters.
If you compare not fastening a seatbelt to abuse, I guess that is another arguement (I might argee with you on a personal level), but unless it is equated with abuse, such as you described (on the level of battery, not a swat…) that is a completely different matter. I know it is dangerous to drive kids around without a seatbelt, but this is certainly not the same as lifting a hand to them.
If you put yourself in the position of watching everyone else’s kids, don’t you think you should go in their homes and make sure the kids are eating right, not watching bad TV, staying out of unattended swimmimg pools? See where this goes?
Again, on a personal level I agree with you that not putting a seat belt on a child is ridiculous, but I don’t think you should poke your head in the car next to you and tell them what do to.
…When the parent is the village idiot. Better to speak up and be thought rude then keep quiet and watch a kid get killed because their parents are morons. Endangering the life of a baby by putting it on a lap instead of a carseat makes it MY business. Babies can’t speak up for themselves.
Zette
tradesilicon made the point I was trying to make in a much more rational manner. That’s what I get for posting in a knee-jerk anger fit.
My bottom line is that I cherish the freedoms afforded to us in the good ol’ U S of A. That includes the freedom to fuck up. People are natural fuck-ups, even (dare I say it) me (as evidenced by my last post). If you try to pass laws to prevent people from being stupid, you’ll never stop. And in my book, even the possibility that someone else may get hurt as a consequence of someone being stupid is not a good enough justification to pass a law preventing them from being stupid. I generally object to any passive law like that. Let them screw up, and then hammer them.
It’s easy to get behind a law like the seat belt law. It makes you feel like you’re compasionate or whatever. I just don’t like where that road leads. Personally, it irritates the crap out of me to see really fat children. What kind of parent let’s their kids get like that. I don’t say anything though because it’s none of my business.
As an aside: Opal, I indeed may be dumber than I look; but I know that stupider is definately not a word.
Dear Zette,
Thank you for caring. This here Villiage Idiot appreciates the fact that you have volutarily taken time to watch over my kid. Would you please get some milk on the way home, 'cause I think the little one may be eating too much junk food, and his bones may not be as strong as they should. Also, will you be stopping by on Thursday to take him to the dentist, or should I channge that to next week? Please let me know, 'cause I’m pretty stupid about these things.
By the way, my cousin has been spending too much time at the club, could you take his kid to the after school program? Thanks again. I really don’t know what we would do without you.
Yours Dumbly,
I really hope there is some point where all this crap stops, and we can get on with life. If you don’t care to have me in your business, please stay out of mine unless invited. Eaten any hamburgers lately? If so, you are a danger to yourself, and I’m hereby warning you to stop.
Tradesilicon/Squid Vicious - I believe that you may be in error. Laws such as mandatory seat belts have their origin in the insurance and health care industries who are trying to keep their costs down and profits up. They don’t really give a shit how you raise your child, but they DO care about the injuries the kids would sustain in a car accident. why care more about the kid? because the potential pay out is much, much higher. Life time care for some one in their 50’s may “only” be 20 or less years, but a life time of care for a toddler may be 60+ years.
Check back on the history of any seat belt mandatory legislation. You’ll see the car manufacturers lobbied against it, the insurance/health fields pro. Individual warm fuzzies from parents who’d lost kids or saved kids were good for publicity photos but didn’t really influence the legislation.
I’m personally in favor of laws that limit our society’s (and therefore my) liablity against some one’s abject stupidity. IE - If we get into an accident where some one looses their life, I don’t care who was at fault, I’ll feel bad. The ambulance drivers seeing a broken child feel bad. We all get to, in addition pay higher insurance costs because some idiot left their child unbuckled. Insurance companies base their rates not only on what you’ve cost them but by a formula that includes a profit for them.
while I can’t control what idiocy you might come up with in your spare time in your own home, I ** do ** think I have an interest in preventing “preventable” injuries.
Now you are bordering on ridiculous.
While I may or may not agree with the way people feed their kids or what they allow on their TV screen, I don’t see the need or the purpose of going into their homes to tell them so. Now you are just grasping to make your point.
However, let me see a young child unattended at a swimming pool, and you bet your ass I will say something to the parent. I think there are some parents who are too stupid to raise the little darlings they created in a moment of sweaty passion. I’m not afraid to look like a bitch if it may protect a child from drowning or bashing their heads throw a windshield. I don’t think a child should be put into physical danger and maybe even death just because their parents are stupid fucking idiots. Call me a buttinsky or whatever, but I am just that way.
Also, wing is exactly right. Not buckling your kid DOES affect the rest of us in medical and auto insurance and the salaries of those who enforce the laws, so it is our business.
Squid - While you are preaching your U.S. of Freakin A. rights, may I remind you of the freedom of speech and my right to tell you to buckle your kids when I see you hauling ass down the freeway with the little ones hopping around in the back? You want the freedom to fuck up? Go right ahead, just expect me to flex my freedom to tell you how much you are fucking up.
Your book says that laws shouldn’t be written to protect those who may be hurt if you decide to fuck up. Thank God the law doesn’t go by your book, eh? When your idiotic actions put me or my family at risk, you bet your damn ass I want the law there to back me up. Just pray to God you have been keeping up on your insurance premiums (inflated due in part to idiots who follow YOUR book) and are able to cover the damages, otherwise our book states that we have the right to sue your ass.
wring, again I was much less concerned with the law (for the tenth time) and addressing the attitude of those who would tell others what to do. The law is there, we obey it, and knowing what we know today we would be foolish not to buckle our kids, law or not. I am talking about the need for some to dictate to others.
Fine, I understand, and personally feel the same way. A life lost like this is a life wated. But I really think you stop short of following through on this logic.
Take for instance the motorcycle riders (of which I used to be one). Motocycles don’t fare well in accidents, but they are still allowed on the roads. Bicycles are even worse (because they can’t get out of the way like a motorcycle can sometimes), but they are on city streets anyway. The ones who are unfortunate and get hit/hurt or worse cost society a price, but are still on the streets. I know we have plenty of laws to maintain safety, but why aren’t we yelling about the dangers of bicycles, fercryinoutloud?
I don’t know why we are not content to educate people about these things (and I am very much in favor of education) and let them make their own decisions. You can only save the idiot from so many things, eventually his idiocy will get him…
This is the entire point and where you are wrong.
If he doesn’t buckle his kids, eventually his idiocy may get them. See the difference?
I think we have learned all we need to know about you right there in that sentence. You just “Don’t Get It” at all. Nice way to jump to conclusions though.
And,please, while you’re at it, explain to me what exactly is a law if it’s not something that dictates to others what to do???
My point is, gee, I think it’s swell that even with out a law, you think it’s the responsible thing to buckle the kid up. however, there’s folks out there who, without a potential fine to sway them, would let the kid ride unbuckled. that’s why we HAVE a law to tell THEM what to do, so WE aren’t harmed by their stupidity.
Opal - yeah, I just don’t get it. Or maybe you just don’t get it. (how long can we keep this one up?)
wing - yeah, laws keep us from doing things, or make us do things. But I really don’t want this to become a debate about how many laws are unnecessary.
So now it’s YOU and not the child that’s at issue. OK, that’s valid too. I think there are way to many examples where we can be harmed by the stupidity of others, but no one is budding in. I happen to think that people who let their kids run wild in the streets all hours are stupid, but I don’t tell them to lock up their kids either. Parents must take ultimate responsibility, can’t depend on Diane and Opal to save 'em all.
Of course Dianne, I fully realize what I am saying - if the idiot is dumb enough, his whole lineage will cease to exist, despite your best efforts.
Not in the least Diane. If you feel that the well being of my child is your business (a la seat belt case) then why not look after the childs diet and other habits. Honestly, I’m not trying to be cute, but making what I think is a valid point. My problem if you disagree, but let’s just say we each have our ‘grasping’ as far as the other is concerned.
My point is you can’t protect everyone from everything, we know this. It’s just a matter of what degree is practical. You may think it’s a good thing to tell off a parent who (in your opinion only) is acting out of line, and I think it isn’t.
I’ll try again.
The law is there for both financial and practical reasons. I care, for finanacial,practical, and emotional reasons.
Your point seems to be that you don’t want laws or any individual "telling you what to do " about you kid. Fine. that’s a debate for another forum. and debate it we will. I DO in fact believe that our society has some right to tell people what to do with their kids - we require parents to feed, clothe, shelter, educate and not maim their children for example. This, IMHO, comes under the “not maim” their kid stance.
This was a rant about the idiots who, even with the laws in place, are stupid enough to not take this small measure of safety for their own children, and thereby cause some others of us aggrivation at the sight, fear for the potential harm and costs to all of us as a whole (both financially and emtionally, as I mentioned).
I’m not sure what you’re here for. You entered into this rant, and took the position “I belt my kids in, think other folks who don’t are idiots, but You’re wrong for telling them so”, even when the law does that.
You know, the concept of “it takes a village” does not refer exclusively to welfare and nosiness. It also refers to everything from me telling the 12 year olds in the park not to ride their bikes down the slide to you stopping my child from crossing the street if a car is coming,to the community organizing things for teenagers to do rather than just saying “get them out of the park and off the corners at night”
I wouldn’t equate it with abuse, but at least in my state it’s considered neglect -neither on the level of a battery nor a swat (it actually fell under the category of “inadequate guardianship” when I worked in CPS}- more like allowing a child to miss a lot of school without a valid reason. They would even take reports that people made with no more identifying information than a plate number.
Why do I get the feeling I am not getting through to you?
Although I think that children should be fed a balanced and nutritious diet, I don’t feel it is my place to dictate what I feel is an adequate menu.
HOWEVER - If I know that you are neglecting your children, including letting them go without food so you can support your crack habit, I sure as hell am going to contact Family Services.
Although I hope that parents are watching their children and keeping track of them while they play outside, I am not going to do more than keep an eye on them as I would any child.
HOWEVER - If I see your toddler playing near the road on a regular basis, or I see you leave your small children unattended in a swimming pool, you will get a friendly reminder from me the first time. The second time, I won’t be so friendly. After that, you get a visit from Family Services.
Although I don’t like to see children physically punished, I am not going to judge you if you smack your child on the bum when he is acting up in the grocery store.
HOWEVER - If I see you strike your child excessively or physically abuse your child, I refuse to stick my head in the sand and tell myself not to get involved. Shit is gonna happen.
Although I would hate to see anyone needless killed because they didn’t wear a seatbelt, I won’t make it a huge issue as long as you are an adult and as long as you aren’t riding in my car or in a car with someone I care about.
Do you realize that even though you may be wearing a seatbelt, you may still be killed the body of an unbuckled person in the car with you?
HOWEVER - Children need adults to protect them from something that is potentially fatal. If their parents are too stupid to protect them from this danger, then I feel I have every right to voice my opinion in hopes that it may help the save the life of this child, at least this time. Hopefully next time the parent will buckle them in once they realize that other people notice.
I won’t even go into the insurance/medical cost issue.
You don’t think people have the obligation or right to interfere when child neglect or abuse is witnessed? Not buckling your child is child neglect.
My grandmother’s friend no longer has a grandchild because the neighbors (and friends of the mother, and friends of the mother’s boyfriend, etc. etc. etc.) didn’t want to butt into someone else’s child rearing business. The little boy was eventually murdered and listed at the time as being the worst case of child abuse in Washington State history.
The grandmother and her son (the boy’s father) had sunk far into debt and lost almost everything trying to gain custody of this little boy. Had others gotten involved, it may have forced family services to remove the child a lot sooner and may have saved his life. In this case, it was too late.
Maybe if someone had told the woman in Salt Lake City to buckle up and buckle up her baby, the cops wouldn’t have had to scrape their lifeless, mangled bodies off the road when they were in an accident earlier this summer. I don’t much enjoy seeing the tiny, bloody sheet covered body of a three year old on the evening news.
Maybe if someone had paid attention to the dirty little girl who wasn’t being watched by her parents (who were too busy drinking), she wouldn’t have fallen into the canal and drowned last spring. It’s funny how so many witnesses came forward after the fact to state that the little girl didn’t seem to have any supervision.
Don’t you dare tell me not to get involved. Had someone taken the effort to get involved in the safely of these children, they just may be alive today.
May I say with the most sincere respect. Please take your “don’t get involved” attitude and shove it firmly up your asshole. Thank you, and have a good evening.
Tradesilicon,
[quote]
Take for instance the motorcycle riders (of which I used to be one). Motocycles don’t fare well in accidents, but they are still allowed on the roads. Bicycles are even worse (because they can’t get out of the way like a motorcycle can sometimes), but they are on city streets anyway. The ones who are unfortunate and get hit/hurt or worse cost society a price, but are still on the streets. I know we have plenty of laws to maintain safety, but why aren’t we yelling about the dangers of bicycles, fercryinoutloud? {/quote]
It might surprise you to know that in NY, bicylce riders under a certain age (14) i think, are required to wear helmets.
I might agree with you if we were discussing mandatory seat belt laws for adults,but we’re not. Will other people or the law get involved in telling you what to feed your child? Perhaps. Should they? Well, that rather depends on what it is you’re feeding the child.If it’s strictly bread and water, then yes, they should
We’re not talking about saving the idiot from his/her ownidiocy, we’re taking about not letting the parent’s idiocy get the kid.
It’s this line of bullcrap that is making you look like an idiot. I would tell someone to buckle their kids, but I wouldn’t tell them what to feed their kids, or anything else like that. In fact, if it was a safety thing that wasn’t a law, I wouldn’t say anything. I feel that the fact that it is both extremely dangerous AND illegal gives me a bit of a right to mention it.
But you won’t understand this. You’ll continue to say that if A = A, then B, C, D and E must also = A.