You sound like a creationist or something, “it’s against logic!”. Nice way to selectively quote me though … I said in my OP that she had “had a few”, but “wasn’t obviously very drunk”.
ie she was: ‘loud+chatty+ argumentative drunk’ (had a few), not ‘slurred speech+can’t walk straight drunk’ (obviously very drunk).
pdts
O.K.
Sorry.
You win.
I’m convinced.
Congratulations.
Oh and I don’t know if this makes a difference, but my friends have been telling the story to everyone we’ve seen since them, almost exactly as I told it here, and said that her jingoism made them ‘embarrassed to be American’.
pdts
I’m not being completely serious in all of my posts. A lot of people here seem to think I am somehow agreeing with the woman in the OP - to them I can only suggest reading comprehension classes. I have just been using hyperbole and a bit of humor to illustrate my belief that he is just as wrong as the woman, IMO, and he shouldn’t be surprised at the reaction he got. The fact that it “ruined his night” and provoked a rant thread on a forum he’s brand new to - who knows how long after the fact - pegged my whine-o-meter and I had to comment.
I also agree with InLucemEdita: the story stank of sugar-coating from the start.
It’s OK. And don’t be sorry - scepticism is a noble stance.
pdts
Ah, the scoundrel’s internet defence… wouldn’t that make you a troll?
pdts
Not unless they have balls made of steel shot and a shank in their boot and a desire to see blood. Maybe a punk with hate in his eye. Few and far between but I’ve seen a couple. You know, till the end and all that bullshit.
I’d certainly love to see if anyone’s actually done a study on this. 1 out of 10 residences in Little Rock aren’t sporting an American flag.
Marc
:rolleyes: I saw that one coming up 3rd Street in a cab. I almost included a disclaimer but I held on to the hope that it wasn’t necessary.
No, there is a difference between not being completely serious and being a troll. I wasn’t sitting here laughing while intentionally trying to push your buttons. I was using language that amused me to illustrate a point that I believed and still believe, which basically boils down to what Contrapuntal said in post #50. Since you can’t seem to get anything but your own interpretations out of my posts, here’s hoping that citing someone else’s will help convey the message.
Well, I have to tell you, I have seen it happen. Not on this topic, but sometimes people are in fighting fettle and start shit for little or no reason, or because they have a hot button topic and, with a few drinks in them (or even without), off they go. Most people are too polite and circumspect to do that, but hey, it’s not beyond belief to think the OP encountered someone who wasn’t.
I don’t know anything about the OP, so on its face, it doesn’t seem like some impossible tale that could never have happened. Is there some concrete reason people are so skeptical here? I don’t get it. A random semi-intoxicated person gets mouthy. It happens. The OP engaged the woman when she should have said, “Excuse me, I’d rather not discuss this with you,” and turned away. Sometimes you indulge in the urge to defend yourself instead of being the perfectly mature adult. He who is without sin cast the first stone and all that. I would certainly be the last person to judge someone for that particular behavior.
I have the feeling that Americans display their flag a lot more than people in other countries too, although I also think there’s probably a bit (a lot?) of a bias in that; I probably don’t even notice when I see a fleur-de-lis or the maple-leaf here in Montreal or elsewhere in Canada, but seeing the Stars and Stripes all over the place jumps out at me. It’s a very… noticeable… flag. And when it is incorporated into other designs (stickers, t-shirts, car dealership signs) it is usually more blatant that a stylized leaf or a couple of official colours, because the STARS and the STRIPES are a big part of what the flag is, and those are visual patterns that stand out… a lot.
As for the Pledge of Allegiance: I find it creepy too, but I pretty much know that a large part of that is due to reading the odd story (really, we only get the odd ones in the news!) of some town or school board or state that decided to go all patriotic and force kids to say “under God” against their will, or whatever. Basically, other than the occasional TV show or movie, the only reference I’ve heard of the Pledge of Allegiance has been involving court cases and religious choice/immigration issues. But I also know that I wouldn’t want to be expected to say it every day either… a “forced” promise isn’t really a promise at all. Of course, I didn’t like saying the Girl Guide promise when I was 9 either, because what if I didn’t want to do my best at something?
Why on earth would you want to ask for an apology? What good is an apology if it isn’t sincerely given?
I’m thinking it isn’t just verbal arguments.
That’s not how it works here, son. You made an extraordinary claim, it’s up to you to back it up. Here’s what you said:
“This is false, in my experience, though I am in the South. Especially when you get outside of town around here, a very large proportion of houses has a US flag outside.
Pick a direction and drive from where I am now, I’d be surprised if I didn’t see at least one or two in the first minute of driving.”
A very large proportion implies at least 50%, but what were you saying? 60, 70, 80% of the houses are flying flags? That’s prima facie bullshit, is what that is.
I can see why you say that, I think what we have here is a failure of communication.
What constitutes a ‘very large proportion’ is contextually determined, viz. wouldn’t 20% of people infected with HIV be a ‘very large proportion’?
You read it as ‘more than half’, I intended it as something less impressive.
My reading is a natural one, as can be seen in post 115:
pdts
I wasn’t asking for an apology per se - I was pointing out that I feel one is owed. I wouldn’t want an insincere one - I want him to either apologise and mean it, or tell me to fuck off and that he stands by what he says. I’d have more respect for him in either case than with all this “oh I was just kidding” nonsense.
pdts
Half the Dope seems to be competitive when it comes to arguments. 3 pages and we’ve come to “Americans have a flag fetish.” I feel pathetic for reading 3 pages of this.
Watch a little documentary called Triumph of the Will, it might enlighten you…
Seppos? I never heard that expression used in my 31 years of residence in the UK.
Septic tank I can recall reading once in (IIRC) VIZ magazine, but that rag is purposefully juvenile and insulting to just about everyone.
I live in Chicago, too, and I disagree. Walk down the street in any residential neighborhood on any given day and you will see a considerable number of flags flying from porches. I suspect anyone who disagrees is just used to it and is tuning them out.
Americans like flags. I don’t think it’s a big deal, but it’s true. Some Europeans think that it means there is something inherently wrong with that, to which I say: “whatever”. I’m not much for flag flying myself, though.
Speaking as an expat, I think pdts was behaving perfectly acceptably. When I’m on vacation, I don’t criticize the country I’m visiting because I’m a guest and I don’t necessarily know much about the politics. In Bulgaria, I feel okay about making lightly critical remarks, because I do live here and I know what’s up. (Not “This place is completely fucked up!” but maybe “I wish people wouldn’t litter quite so much.”) I expect pdts feels the same way towards the US.
The woman in the OP was a bitch, and Cisco is being a complete dick in this thread.
About two weeks after 9/11 there were flags just about everywhere in the NE US. We took a road trip vacation the following summer through NJ, NY and New England; observation compels the statement.
Mostly gone now, 24/7 exposure taking their toll. The Chinese made flags went first, though tatters on car antenna can still be seen.