Too late to edit, but when I say “Americans are…”, I clearly mean on average rather than in the universal specific. Many individuals aren’t, I know (self obviously included). Feel free to assume as many more such precautionary qualifications as necessary to prevent rage. 
Lone nuts
This discussion also seems to ignore the fact that even third graders (and the teachers of such) are not terribly concerned with the Pledge. It continues on in the way it is now purely out of inertia, nothing more. By third grade, everyone is just mumbling the pledge along with the teacher anyway.
More lone nuts looking to create a news story where there is none or trying to discredit Obama for political gain. You’ll notice how it was laughed off and didn’t work right?
The US government, in point of fact. In any case, I offered it more as an anecdote that amused me than to make any point - the very fact that everyone in the office found it so funny indicates it’s hardly a regular occurrence. My US-resident fellow students were not required to pledge.
Not in dispute, but it’s still odd from a foreign perspective. The fact that anyone at all says it on a regular basis is weird to us. Recent proposals over here for a pledge to the Queen were met with snorts of derision; it’s just something we find strange, is all, and something which is undeniably different about the States.
Again, no (well, little) argument here but the very fact it was brought up at all is odd from a foreign perspective. Which, if you recall, is exactly what the OP was asked for by his friends. Not an objective value judgement or an essay on the realities of nationalistic fervour among suburban Americans - just his perspective. “Patriotism” is a noun which hardly ever crops up in political stories over here, and it’s not ground over which politicians compete - indeed, someone loudly trumpeting such values would be viewed somewhat askance (most likely because they’d be a nut from a party like UKIP). And you must equally agree that there are no doubt some who will take barbs at Obama’s patriotism seriously. More than can be written off as lone nuts, too.
I’m sure that, much like air conditioning noise, all this stuff largely fades into the background for most Americans and anyone who spends a long time living there. That doesn’t change the fact that the OP was asked by his friends for his perspectives as a foreigner on living in America, and that the general prevalence of overt patriotism there is one of those things which, for many foreigners, is most noticeable on arrival.
Flag waving and nationalism make me uncomfortable.
Well, not really. Mostly I’m just an effete, pompous shitbird who pretends to be sophisticatedly bewlidered by vulgar colonial behaviors. I even use the word “uncomfortable” so that my audience can associate me with being a victim. See, if I outright refer to American cultural behaviors as wrong, it makes me look like the intolerant tourist that I am. But when I say that nationalism makes me uncomfortable, I’m suddenly a victim of your boorishness and my own delicate sensibilities.
It’s just how I keeps it real in the drinking establishments of America.
You only become a victim when a person sticks their nose into your conversation. A person that seems to take a mild slight at best and turn in into a major deal. But then again she was a lone nut. There’s no other evidence of people taking the OP’s statements as something a lot stronger than it was and becoming very defensive about it. No… no evidence at all.
For fuck sake.
Whereas, of course, your response to a mild opinion is robust and manly, and not at all an overreaction. Several Americans in this thread have attested to the fact that it makes them “uncomfortable”, too*. Are they also “effete, pompous shitbird[s]”? Can nobody genuinely be just “uncomfortable” with something; must there really be something more sinister going on? You’re doing an awful lot of projecting. As I said, Britons tend to get awkward around expressions of British patriotism (maybe it’s because our anthem is such an atrocious dirge), so you really shouldn’t feel singled out or belittled. Unless you want to, that is.
*I’m among them, but unfortunately I own and occasionally wear a velvet jacket so am going to be unable to defend myself on charges of effeteness, m’lud.
Yes but in your post you called someone a cretin for showing you pictures of a flag even though you know what that flag looks like. They were showing you a picture of a *specific * flag and place which you seem to have missed. I’m sure you are 100% correct about everything else. The only time I was in Ireland was 20 years ago. I wasn’t looking for flags. Although I seem to recall quite a few. But that might have been because I was marching in the Dublin St Patricks Day parade. I’m sure there are more Irish flags in America than in Ireland.
It looks like there are hundreds of pictures on the page posted. One of them shows the GPO and it’s not at the top. I think he can be forgiven making a mistake about the intention of the link.
Yeah you may see a bit of Green White and Orange on Paddy’s Day 
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/images/2008/0317/image_200275_1.jpg
George Bush jokes aside, we’re not a bunch of funking Nazis.
Marc
When I lived away from the US for several years and returned, I, too, found all the flags a bit weird and disconcerting. Perhaps even uncomfortable. One of the reasons is that I had gotten used to equating the more egregious flag-wavers with ardent right-wing nationalism and outright xenophobia in the countries I visited.
Most people I met had some pride in their national identity, but most were not keen on outward displays of national identity like flags, pins, and the such, except for, possibly, on national holidays. The people who did tend to outwardly display their national identity with such markers are those who felt their national identity being threatened.
At least this is the sense I got, as gross of an oversimplification as it may be. Here, in the US, it doesn’t seem to have quite the same connotations. You may find some overlap, but I think there is a lot more casual flag-waving here.
But I can see how it makes people uncomfortable. Hell, I find it weird, too.
One every few blocks is hardly common.
Marc
I was replying as to why a European might see a bit of over-enthusiastic flag-waving as not totally harmless. I was thinking specifically of the flag-blessing ceremony in TotW.
It is compared to other countries I have visited. I really think this is a major difference between the US and Europe. I don’t think it is a bad thing necessarily - hell, as I said I fly one.
Dude. One every few blocks (which is a conservative estimate) is one more than you’ll see per block in any residential or commercial area in Europe (except in Denmark). That makes it a lot.
Not a lot in absolute terms, but a lot in relative terms. Stop being so fucking dense.
It is not racist because there is a difference between race, ethnicity, and country of origin. “Limey” is a mild term describing the country of origin, sometimes derogatory, sometimes simply a nickname (check wikipedia for both uses) on a par with “Yank” for Americans. Neither has anything to do with race. And neither has anything to do with ethnic origin; you can be a “Yank” or a “Limey” with many different ethnic or racial backgrounds.
So, nothing to do with race makes it NOT racist, by definition. Got it?
Other terms for country of origin are considered to be more offensive, and I think context has a lot to do with it. It is my understanding that “Jap” is considered more offensive both because Japanese refers to both a country and a distinct ethnicity, and moreso because the word “Jap” was used in the context of imprisoning innocent Japanese Americans during WWII. “Limey” and “Yank” have no similar context that I am aware of. “Jap” is still not racist though…unless you consider Japanese to be a race…I think it is an ethnicity with the Asian race, but I’m sure there are those who know more about this distinction than I. I’ve never heard anyone called a “Paki” so I don’t know it’s level of offensiveness to those of Pakistani origin. I don’t know why someone would be offended by a nickname that simply describes their country of origin, unless that term has been used in some other negative context.
Frankly, I come from a place where me and my Mick Granpa, and my Dago Girlfriend, and my Canuck friends are all proud enough of our origins and secure enough in our natures to accept nicknames without offense. And we certainly wouldn’t cheapen the concept of racism by applying it where it is totally unwarranted.
And we would all think you are a fucking idiot no matter what you called yourself.
Cheers.
I should add that South Africans are a leeetle bit mad for our new flag as well - you find it in a lot of places. Here, I think it ties into post-apartheid nation building. Hell, I own a beaded flag lapel pin, and I’m as unpatriotic as they come.
Except for the odd sport match.
You’re correct - I did miss that the first time.
But Carol Stream’s assertion appeared to me to conisist basically of: “Here’s a pic of an Irish PO with an Irish flag. Therefore, you’re full of shit when you say Irish PO’s don’t show Irish flags.” As if one highly atypical example (kindly confirmed by yojimbo) would serve to refute my direct, ongoing observations. Hence my labelling of CS as a cretin.
I still stand by that remark.
Speaking as an “inpat”, the flag thing doesn’t make me uncomfortable at all. I think it’s weird, but not scary (which is pretty much the sentiment expressed in the OP).
The Pledge, on the other hand, was certainly scary, at least when I was in school. It put me in mind of nothing so much as Chinese kids reciting the words of Mao Tsedong in old newsreels. I see any sort of ceremony which aims to indoctinate kids into believing in the benevolence and wonderfulness of the State as rather authoritarian.
Once I’d been here long enough to realize that nobody takes it seriously, and that most people never have to say it once they’re out of school, it seemed much more benign.
Let’s see - she’s been here an entire year and people who are her friends asked for (presumably) her honest opinion about her experience here… and what, you want her to LIE about what she doesn’t like?
You know, I have at times asked foreigners their opinions of my country. When I do so I want their HONEST OPINION and not some fucking pleasant lie. I want the TRUTH. If I did not want a truthful answer I would not have asked the question.
But I guess you’re more interested in feeling good than actual honesty. I’ll keep that in mind - if I ask you a direct question I can’t trust you to answer truthfully, since keeping up appearances is apparently more important to you than honesty.
Well, yeah. But that’s 'cause you guys have a cool flag, with a little flair in its design and colors.
It’s not just another flag with 3 stripes, like half of Europe and Latin America. I mean, really - as demonstrated by Jared Leto’s character in the movie Lord of War, all you have to do to make a Dutch flag is rotate a French flag 90 degrees. Pretty lame…