Personally I think everyone involved in this was an idiot, and that’s really all I have to say.
I asked my sister, who is in the Air Force, about weapons training. She said they spent about a day actually firing a rifle, and had to carry a dummy or unloaded one around a decent bit, but that was all; she has not touched any sort of firearm since basic training. I believe most of the Air Force’s guns are attached to planes.
Listen up special people, he reacted to SEEING A LASER DOT.
He didn’t react to someone pointing a taser at him, as he didn’t know it was a taser until after he reacted. It just so happened to be a taser.
Also, bringing up how silly the cop was, doesnt excuse Doors from being a little jumpy with his gun.
Has anything liked this happened before Doors?
No shit, Sherlock. Ya ever seen the original The Terminator? Laser’s have been put on weapons since the late 80s. Ya think the guys driving around in Iraq see a pile of garbage think that its “just a pile of garbage”? The one’s who’re still living, don’t.
I’ve never been to Iraq, but there’s only two times I’m going to assume that a laser dot isn’t a hazard to me: When I’m the one holding it, or I’m trapped in another fucking PowerPoint presentation (and in the latter case, I’m going to assume that damage being done to isn’t going to be physical).
Yes, I probably did overreact. That I was vindicated later does not mitigate that.
I wasn’t. It never came out.
Yes. I have had weapons pointed at me on two different occasions. I made the assumption that it was a weapon for the sole reason that people do not walk around with laser pointers.
Incidentally, I will state for the record that I was the designated driver, since there seems to be debate about that. I did not have a single alcoholic beverage. I was there with my sister whom I had not seen in a few weeks and she wanted to knock a few down. I know most of the people there and I’m generally very comfortable there.
As for the “PTSD” comments, I would say that I did get shot at while I was in the air, and the base I was on did get mortared a few times a good distance away from where I was, but nothing more than that.
I accept the criticism with good grace. What I can’t believe is that this has gone on for six pages. Geez, guys.
You’re not that bad of a guy, Airman. I think you overreacted, but I’m sorry for being so harsh. I’m sure you didn’t shriek like a girl, and I respect your service in Iraq.
Hey y’all, deputy Sheriff and ANG airman (EOD) chiming in. In my (one short) stint in Iraq, I came under direct fire about a dozen times. Never wounded or injured, but enough to make me very, very cautious in some circumstances. I don’t know what Door’s AFSC was, but it’s very, very possible that he may have had some experiences which make him jumpy. Not going to second guess what Door’s did because I wasn’t there and as such won’t pass judgement on his action. (However, I will critique one thing. If by ‘hitting the deck’ you meant to go fully prone, that is bad form. Easier to take a knee and as such engage your target with a more stable base of fire.)
As for the cop, he needs to be retrained. If the cop had an accidental discharge with that Tazer, it would have been a painful and possibly life-threatening incident. Further, you don’t know who is carrying what. The OP said off-duty. Were the cops out of uniform? Were they in uniform and just grabbing a quick one before going home (bad form, but some departments don’t have a requirement to be out of uniform before going to a bar/club.) The situation is more complex than what is being joked about here.
Let me throw out a hypothetical. Lets assume these off-duty cops are either out of uniform, or are in uniform but in a location that their badges or other identifiers are not readily visible (Herein Officer A and Officer B.) Lets also assume there is another off-duty police officer from another department (as such, do not know the guys. Herein Officer C) Airman Doors is himself.
Officer C sees a red dot appear in the middle of AD’s chest, then sees AD go prone while reaching to draw his concealed weapon. With my back to Officers A & B, there is only one area that the laser sight could have come from. At which point Officer C turns and sees A&B at a table, booth, or whatever, aiming a pistol-like device with a laser sight on it at a civilian. As Officer C, what do you do? Total elapsed time to make a decision, under 2 seconds. (Again, a hypothetical. Any realistic answer would be correct, but the sheer number of added variables shows just how fucked up the situation is and how badly this “joke” could have turned out.)
OK, what did you do with the real DtC?
What, I’m Airman Doors’s personal snarkguard? I don’t give a shit who you bitched about. You just acted like an asshole, so I called you one. Not every Pit thread is a Congressional hearing with two party lines, you know.
By the way–you’ve not bitched about what Doors what?
I was going to say something snarky to agree with you, but what the fuck, Dio actually came back and decided to grow up a little. Whoda thunk?
Actually, he reacted to being aimed at with a weapon, which was, in fact, what happened.
How was he jumpy with his gun? He didn’t even touch it.
Both cops were carrying, off-duty policemen are required to carry at all times, IIRC. There may also have been several other people in the bar carrying. There’s nothing illegal or inherently wrong with that. It’s not stupid to be in a bar with a loaded weapon. To think otherwise is illogical, and implies that you think that the mere presence of a weapon is dangerous in a bar.
Many, many people carry all the time. It isn’t a matter of not being comfortable without a gun, it’s just part of their everyday accouterments, like carrying keys, cell phone, pager, tissues, etc. A gun is just another tool, after all.
It’s admirable to restrain yourself from over-reacting in a potentially hostile situation, yes.
The off-duty cop made a mistake. He treated a weapon with disrespect, and put people in harms way. Hopefully he’ll learn from his mistake, and not draw down on someone as a joke ever again. Because this situation could easily have resulted in tragedy. Would you rather the off-duty cop tased someone? Would you rather he be shot by a civilian because he was threatening him with a weapon?
Hmm. In a best case scenerio: Lots of guns being pointed at people, lots of shouting, nobody dead. Worst case scenerio: At least one person wounded or dead, probably more.
Since AD is here, can I bump my questions?
(and of course it was going to go 6 pages. This had potential written all over it from page 1)
“Did” is the word I forgot. Mind you, you’ll notice that I did not state that I in any way agreed with the “Being tased is like the weather: If its inevitable, you might as well lie back enjoy it.” statement. I would have thought that throwing out a comment which was so obviously a reworking of a line that caused a national outrage, it would be a clear indication that I in no way agreed with it, and was just using it to drive a point home. Apparently, I was wrong.
I’d be willing to lay money that’s simply because DtC just doesn’t want to take the time to defend his asshattery, not that he’s finally gotten a clue. DtC has a history of saying incredibly stupid shit in one thread, then caving when he’s been called upon it, only to say the exact same shit in another thread later on, when he’s thought that we’ve all forgotten about it. We are, after all, talking about a guy who thinks we went into Iraq not because there was oil there (or WMDs), but because there were plenty of “brown people” to kill.
Keys, cell phones, pagers, and tissues don’t normally kill people when someone throws a temper tantrum.
I am probably stating something that has been stated before, and forgive me if I do, but this thread has grown way beyond what I can keep up with, so I didn’t read all the posts, but allow me to make a comment here:
I don’t want to go off on a rant, but you have an establishment that serves alcohol, you have someone with a laser dot pointing it a patrons of this bar, a person with a less than lethal weapon, and a person who strongly supports the rights of gun owners. You also have a time in the US when there have been shootings in high schools, college campuses, courtrooms, and even, for Christ’s Sake, Churches.
You hear the news about people getting shot up in these places and some people may think, what a tragedy. There are others that may think, if I was there, or if one armed person was there things could have been different. **Airman Doors **is one of those people. Some of you may remember that he solicited us Dopers for comment on the paper he wrote following the shootings on the Virginia Tech campus. If this had been a situation in which it was a madman with a gun and Airman Doors had disabled the shooter, most of us, whether we support concealed carry or not would have considered Airman Doors a hero for stopping the violence by reacting appropriately.
Because it was not a bullet aimed for his heart, we have the chance to second guess his reaction. Keep in mind that if he was armed in this nightspot, others could have been. Some with good intent, some who may have had other ideas. Let’s take this a step further, if guns were banned in this bar, would the cop have had any problem bringing his gun in? Most likely not. If a cop can bring his gun in, why would anyone think that a determined person could not bring one in legally or not?
I have not always seen eye-to-eye with Airman Doors, and I don’t agree that a person should have to feel the need to carry everywhere, but this nightclub may have learned one important lesson…
Don’t FUCK with Doors when he has been drinking*
Uh, I mean, that one person who, acting within the limits of the law, could prevent a tragedy.
SSG Schwartz
You know, I been sniped by a 13 year old. '06, University Avenue, just north of where it stops being MLK Blvd in the Bronx. Pidwhacker got an air-rifle for his whatever, and spent a gloriously happy hour putting holes in windshields and shooting at people.
Cops came, couldn’t find him… happened again two days later. And three days later. Cops eventually found him.
It’s not that much fun. And no, air rifles can do some damage if they hit you. If they’ll punch through a windshield, they’ll punch into you.
I would like some definition of ‘underlying medical condition’ that includes ‘standing on a ledge’, please.
I could argue that people who are packing know that they hold trump in any disagreement, and are thus less likely to become enraged. However, quite a few people assume that weapons are an evil unto themselves – that somehow merely carrying a weapon predisposes one to use it.
I’m not going to try and change your opinion about guns. But I note a lot of unwarranted prejudice against them in this thread, and I believe that is a product of ignorance and delusion.
It’s a cliche, but guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
Ya’ think?
Moron.
An air rifle with a laser scope? This will be in the remake of “A Christmas Story”.
Google says yes. That’s just the first link. 
I slogged all through this thread to agree with Dead Badger and a few others: if I found myself getting painted with a red laser pointer in a building where people are known to carry guns and other weapons and might be doing so while drinking, I might not hit the deck, but I would take some very quick evasive action followed by some very angry “Who the FUCK is the idiot in this room?” non-evasive whoop-ass can opening. No, I wouldn’t hit anyone. I would probably just go up to the joker and dress him down like I was my father.
If it was some idiot with a laser pointer, I would tell him to put the damn thing away – “What are you, twelve?” If it was some major idiot with a taser, well… there wouldn’t be time between that night and my talk with the chief of police to write a Pit thread.
Getting shot is not even as likely as getting hit by lightning, this is true. But I don’t make a habit of waving big rakes in the air and standing in puddles during lightning storms, and I don’t take it likely when I think I might be getting threatened by a weapon.