Different industry, but I am in 100% argreement with this statement regarding my own pay. 
I don’t know a thing about Australia, but where I practice (New York City), it’s easy to get an initial consultation within a day or two. And if your case is decent, you’ll have attorneys beating down your door to sign you up.
Perhaps Australia needs more lawyers.
There was a particular piece of legislation passed in Kambuckta’s jurisdiction that meant that everyone (including Kambuckta) was trying to put their claim in by a particular deadline, which put a lump in everyone’s caseload.
Nobody’s commented on this so far, but allow me to point out that it’s borderline retarded. “Tort reform” in this country has focused almost exclusively on protecting defendants and limiting the damage awards they have to pay. This has next to nothing to do with the fees charged by attorneys, which are primarily a function of the complexity of the legal system itself.
If you want to reduce attorney fees, simplify the system that attorneys are there to guide their clients through.
My wife and I had a very nice sit down with our local lawyer, and he spent a good hour and a half with us, discussing estate planning, wills, POAs, medical directives. Then he sent us proofs of the documents which we reviewed. Then he made changes and sent us new proofs. Then we spent another twenty minutes with him, had the documents signed and notarized, and I got a bill for $150.
Seems ok, to me.
I hate being divorced. I’d rather be a widower.
My rant in response to the original is of the opposite slant…
The title of this thread annoys me. It’s good to see some intelligent replies from qualified sources.
Not ALL lawyers can be lumped into the “fucking lawyers” category. Some lawyers are fair and honest, and are looking out for Plaintiffs/Claimants to be sure that they are properly cared for and compensated under the applicable laws. I work for one of those lawyers (and have worked for others not like him, so I’ve seen the dark side).
Recent changes have been made to workers’ compensation laws here in Florida regarding attorney fees. It’s quite possible, that my boss, who just opened his own practice two years ago, may be forced out of business by crushing legislation. Several of Orlando’s largest law firms are scaling down their workers’ comp departments from as many as 10 to 15 lawyers down to 3 to 5. Sole proprietors are noticably nervous, as they expected the larger (more financially secure) law firms to fight and appeal this new legislation.
To all who hate lawyers, if you’re ever in need of one, I hope you are fortunate enough to find a competent one and not one who you feel has fucked you over, causing you to harbor continued resentment.
There are GREAT lawyers out there (while I agree there are TOO many lawyers, at least in Florida!), that aren’t over-charging, just getting compensated for their education, expertise, and time.
Commence flaming rat bastards!! lol!!
To those of you contemplating representing yourself (in a divorce action): DO NOT buy that crap about having a “fool for a lawyer”. Representing yourself is very feasible…I’ve done it myself! First time: I hired alawyer…he charged me $3600.0 for a 12 minute court appearence…and absolutely screwed up my divocre (I had to hire another lawyer to untangle the mess he had gotten me into). On the second action (complaint for modification), I represented myself…I did such a great job that the judge complemented me! Of course, I had a friendly court clerk review everything for me (I gave him a case of whiskey). I fgure I saved over $4000.00, and didn’t have to deal with that alcoholic dipshit I had the first time around!
Crickey, Mate. I was going to get roight pissed (two meanings?) after reading this thread toitle.
[dead serious] I’m just going to say two words: pro se. Does that translate over there? Nobody must work as a slave for anyone else. That’s settled law. If you want it done right, sometimes…[/serious]
[back to outrageous Aussie accent]
Lawyas in the States are loike Great Whoite Shaaks!
I must admit, I agree with OneYogini … the entire experience depends on who you hire. My husband and I recently had to hire a lawyer and let me tell you … I thought his fees were astronomical and completely ridiculous … until I saw the volume of paperwork and legwork he’s done for us. There’s a part of me that still thinks he’s getting rich off of people like me … but I would NEVER have been able to get through the court system without him!
It’s crikey.
Strike me pink, mate, don’t you know nuffin?
The Department of Motor Vehicles has not set up the highway system so that I have to have a Lamborghini to drive on it…
This actually does relate to tort reform, at least the proposal that cases pass through an arbitration process so as to avoid both hassles with shopping around for lawyers and having a big chunk of any eventual settlement/award going to them.
It’s predictably a very unpopular idea with malpractice attorneys.
I think this sort of service is more commonly provided by prostitutes.
(Get it? Fucking lawyers…the fees they charge…ha…ha…OK, sorry.)
But the government has set up the highway system so that you need a license to drive on it. And it just so happens that the process of litigating a case takes more knowledge and skill than the process of driving a car.
The legal system is incredibly complex, but the complexities aren’t there just to ensure that lawyers get a paycheck. The complexities are the byproduct of the processes that ensure that the parties get a full and fair trial. I’m all for simplifying the process, but not if it harms the integrity of the process.
As for those who are apparenty advising kambuckta to represent him/herself, it’s certainly an option, but one that you should think about long and hard before taking. In Texas, there are numerous legal hoops that must be jumped through to maintain a medical malpractice action, and which a non-lawyer would likely struggle to learn about, let alone fulfill. Enterprising and intelligent people could do it, but it’s a full-time job for lawyers, and would likely require even more work from a non-lawyer. It’s possible that Australia is very similar, and unless you hire a lawyer, you may not find out about the legal landmines until you run over one and it’s too late.
Indeed. Every lawyer will tell you that law school only gives you a foundation for all the stuff you need to know when you actually start practicing law. Each jurisdiction has different laws, different sets of paperwork, different procedures.
I actually agree with you Age Quod Agis. I understand that the complexity of the legal system is so that fairness and justice can be ensured. T’wer it ‘simpler’ it would likely be more draconian and less able to accomodate the human vagaries that it attempts to arbitrate.
But a lot of the costs are NOT because of the complexity. Take photocopying as an example. If a solicitor photocopies a piece of paper, I am charged $1.50 (AUD) for the service. I am (at least in principal) more than happy to pay for their research time, or the time they spend in court or mediation or whatever, but $1.50 for photocopying? Sheeeesh. Gimme a break.
I started the litigation process representing myself by necessity…it was NOT something I actually wanted to do, and I do not have the skills or the courage to see it through. I KNEW that, but as Princhester noted in a post above, I was forced by virtue of time constraints (with new legislation being enacted) to get my case listed by a certain time. Which I did. I would NOT want to do the whole case myself, and actually the prospect of having to do it made me feel physically ILL!! My couple of days in court showed me just how ignorant of the legal system I am, and that is a state I am happy to wallow in thankyouverymuch.
I was overjoyed when my two legal-dudes decided to take the case on but that joy was somewhat diminished once I found out about the fees they were going to charge if I win the case.
That’s all.
The $1.50 for photocopying always annoys people, to the extent that I stopped charging it that way. Thing is, people always compare that to the $0.20 (or whatever) that it would cost in a self service photocopying shop or if you gave Kwikcopy (or whoever) a big bundle of A4 docs and said “copy these”.
Copying’s cheap if all you have to do is stick a bundle of docs in a feeder and hit “copy” and then wait while the copies are spat out. But that’s not the way it works in legal practice.
What happens typically is that you have to find and copy 67 documents for some reason out of files containing 234 documents, take them out of whatever filing system you have them in, destaple them, put them through the copier, staple the copies, re-staple the original, put it back where it was so you can find it again and then when you’ve done all 67, check and cross check that you’ve copied each one that you need. And quality control is absolutely crucial. If you miss a document and it doesn’t go to the appropriate person, a whole element of your case can be missed or go haywire because someone doesn’t see something they were supposed to because they never saw a copy of something crucial.
It’s not a job you can give to the office junior, or if you do, you then have to spend time checking what they’ve done so you save nothing.
My PA spends hours and sometimes days copying briefs.
You can try to explain all that to a client but in their mind they’re still thinking $1.50 for a freakin’ photocopy! and they resent it like hell.
So what I do these days is just charge my PA out at an hourly rate when she’s doing copying. Funny thing is, that often works out at least as much if not more than I’d charge if I just worked it out at $1.50 per copy, but somehow clients are much happier.
For what it’s worth, I agree that this practice – hiding profits in expenses – is pretty crappy. When I worked for big law firms, you had to put a charge number in every time you used the copy machine; every time you made a phone call; every time you used computer research services. The clients were billed amounts that seemed quite high, it’s difficult to imagine that these were the actual costs.
Now that I have my own practice, I don’t have to participate in this sort of conduct.
Well, I dunno about YOUR practice Prinny but mine is charging me for photocopying PLUS the hours that the PA does in collating as well.
That is, he WOULD be, but I’ve offered to do any major photocopying myself (at 6c per copy at OfficeWorks, it’s a BARGAIN) and he has agreed.
Small mercies, but hey…