Fucking Microsoft what the hell is wrong with you?

The BBQ Pit
21

Halo 2 and 3. After the fantastic experience with PC play, I was really expecting it to be mind blowing on XBL. It ain’t.

And no, I’m not just looking to bash something. I was really looking forward to the experience. I have friends who work over on XBL, and I don’t really look to dog their product, but I’m not going to pretend it’s nice either. The matchmaking is really fundamentally broken. Every match I’ve participated in has incredibly lopsided statistics regarding the abilities of the players. The maps are all tiny and seem to be designed to create short games that are over in as little time as possible. The matchmaking between games takes a lot longer than the actual gameplay.

I haven’t seen any provision to allow users to join games in progress. That also feeds into the whole nasty process - when a couple users drop out of an in progress game, the smaller team gets owned by the larger team in a couple minutes, bringing the match to an end that much faster.

It’s not hard to see that this is designed to maximize server usage. The highest impact to server bandwidth and proc time is the actual gameplay. By making games shorter and wait times longer, they end up paying a lot less for servers. Halo for PC was a lot more fun, because most of the servers were run by some random nerd out of his basement. They were happy to let matches go on for hours, and people could drop in or out as they pleased. I pictured XBL to be along those lines, instead it’s like a factory line where they’re trying to get you through the game and back out into the next line in the lobby as fast as possible.

There are a lot of cool things about XBL. I liked how I could download games like Braid, and downloading HD movies is also nice. It’s a good environment that could be leveraged into a really nice gaming experience. But after spending the last month messing around with it, I realized I wasn’t having much fun, and would be a lot happier sticking with online PC games. No big loss - we’ll use the netflix feature until something better comes along.

22

Well, that explains why you are completely off base. First off, Halo2 is an original Xbox live game, not a 360 game. It was almost literally the first matchmaking system game, ever, and uses the legacy XBL framework, which is missing a lot of features.

Secondly, the “server time” you talk about is a mistake as well. Halo 2 and 3 both simply assign a player’s console to be the server, and gaming is more or less p2p. No servers for ms (Bungie) to run and waste money on.

Yes, Bungie decided not to have join-in-progress, for gaming design reasons. But that is not XBL’s fault. There are several games which DO include join-in-progress, and some that don’t – it’s a decision left up to the developer. Halo 2 and 3 are focused on short maps with set victory conditions, not like the open-ended 4 hour matches of Battlefield 1942. Plus, Halo 3 (and especially 2) is kind of old, so you’re going to get stuck in with the hardcore, and get your ass correspondingly whipped, just as you will if you fire up Quake 2 CTF on the PC. I will admit that most XBL games are oriented toward having a group of friends to play with instead of going at it alone – a change I think is good, but others may not. (Though I am willing to bet there are a large number of gamers on this board alone that wouldn’t mind teaming up.)

In short, you’re blaming the wrong party. You’re playing with a bunch of other solo folks, probably dumbasses who don’t have/use headsets, you’re playing old games, and you seem to be playing games that aren’t about what you want to do online.

I will give you a tip though; use your headset, and make some friends. It’s astoundingly easy to get a friends list going, and play with people you know aren’t idiots. On the other hand, if you are the guy without the mic, or play with random stoner retards, you are probably going to be disappointed. Try Left 4 Dead or Call of Duty 4 for the kinds of games you seem to be looking for.

23

So you are telling me that the issues I’m experiencing are valid, then turn around and tell me I’m “completely off base”?

Halo 3 is still the flagship game for XBox. I expect it to be exemplary of the XBox experience. If the lopsided matchmaking is the result of the game being out for a while, then it means the matchmaking doesn’t work. Halo 3 was released on 9/25/07. Seriously, how scalable is a system that breaks down in 18 months?

Or just play PC games, which don’t charge for online play and have none of the issues you mention. When I pay for XBL, I expect them to provide a superior experience to what I get for free elsewhere. I also don’t expect to have to buy extra peripherals, or invest extra hours of time finding the ‘right’ way to use the system. It should just work.

I appreciate the tips, ivn1188, seriously. But you sound to me like you’ve learned ways to compensate for an experience which is fundamentally broken.

24

No, that’s not accurate. I think Halo 3’s matchmaking system works fine. I like the short games, and it doesn’t usually take more than 45 seconds to a minute or so to find a match.

But my point about skill is that there are going to be very very few new players online. Everyone else knows the maps and all the little tricks, which you don’t. Furthermore, most people who are playing team games at this point will be in a party. So on one side there is going to be a group of people who know each other and probably have set strategies and good skills. On the other side, you have a bunch of pickups. The system doesn’t discriminate against parties. The system isn’t perfect, admittedly, but it sounds like you are more angry that you are getting your ass kicked. Which is also related to my next point.

With respect to your comments about peripherals and such, are you saying you don’t have a headset for online play? You’re welcome to not have one, but everyone worth a damn will think you’re a moron. Most of the games I host and play in, no mic = kicked out of the game. It’s shocking how often some person playing a team game without a mic will be running around messing things up and making an ass out of himself. What’s worse, is this person has no idea that the rest of the team is getting annoyed.

Considering that there is no matchmaking at all for most PC games, no gamertags or message systems, no cheat protection, no standard voice chat, no good way to play with a party of friends, no standardized content (ie, maps you don’t have), no achievements/scoring system, and other missing features, I don’t think it’s at all correct to say XBL is fundamentally broken, or that it doesn’t provide any extra functionality. There are games out there with dedicated servers running all the time, just like counterstrike servers. But that isn’t what people seem to want these days.

Your complaint here is not about xbox live. The “flagship” experience of Halo 3 was fine for me, the day it came out, my friends and I hopped on, got in a party, and were playing within minutes, always on the same team. Left 4 Dead is the same way, and even when I play with strangers, most of the time I meet people I like. Some people like to solo their way through World of Warcraft, too, but you’re not going to be able to run the big instances without a good guild and a vent server. Does that mean WOW is broken?

25

This is generally a good thing. Left 4 Dead PC has an xbox-like matchmaking system and no one likes it. It’s nice to be able to see a list of servers and sort by number of people, maps, rules, latency, and choose your own rather than get stuck on whatever it randomly assigns you.

This varies from game to game, true. Steam isn’t all encompassing, but it does give hundreds of games a good account/message system.

Voice chat has been a standard feature of games where it’s appropriate for at least 7 or 8 years.

There are games with in-game buddy lists, programs that let you know what your buddies are up to like xfire, or the simple ability to tell each other via IM where to meet up.

If games didn’t have standardized content, what would you be playing on on day 1? You sound like you’re trying to make the ability to design and play on custom content sound like a negative, like it’s good xbox players don’t have the ability to play hundred of game mods or thousands of custom maps.

26

I know a lot of people who like it. That’s a personal preference as to if it is a good thing or not. It isn’t some horribly broken scheme foisted upon the angry gaming hordes. And Valve added a server browser for those who want to use it.

This one is both good and bad. Additional content is nice, but a lot of times user made maps suck. It’s simply a tradeoff between hassle and content. I like not having to deal with collecting a bunch (thousands?) of crap maps, and getting only the cream of the crop, as it were. YMMV.

All the other features are available in some games, yes. But they aren’t integrated or standardized nearly to the extent that they are in XBL, and rarely go across games. I don’t want to get into the old PC vs Console debate, because it’s stupid. They aren’t mutually exclusive, and a lot of the differences are simply personal preference. I will, however, stand up for XBL because it’s a great system that has many valuable features and removes a lot of hassle, and it only costs about 5 dollars a month. MS has done an incredible job of making XBL an online community of sorts, especially compared to the other consoles. If you don’t like specific aspects, that’s fine. But jumping on XBL like it’s a bad product or some sort of scam is just wrong.

27

“That’s not accurate”? Are you saying the five minute wait time I’m seeing between matchmaking sessions is actually my imagination? Or are you saying that I’m lying about it? Please specify which one you think is true, so I can gauge how much of an idiot you are and respond appropriately.

For the record, I don’t care about getting my ass kicked, as long as I’m having fun. In fact, I’m usually the one who volunteers for the suicide missions. Tying your self image to your gamer abilities is a stupid way to live your life.

Exactly. I agree with you about the custom content too, in fact that can be one of the most fun aspects of PC play. There are some awesome user created maps for Unreal that are some of the most fun I’ve ever played.

28

It might be the EA servers , but this is actually normal in Battlefield2 Modern Combat with people joining games in progress. This is on xbox live with the 360.

Declan

29

So cancel your account, take back your copy of Halo 3, and play on the PC. I don’t give a shit. I might be an idiot, but I’m an idiot that’s been not having problems with XBL for years now.

I just went on and my average matchmaking time was 42 seconds over 6 matches. So, I don’t know if you are lying or if you’re in a crappy part of the internet or what your problem is.

To make matters worse, you’re bitching about Bungie, not XBL. Frontlines: Fuel of War works exactly like your pc server browser, so there’s no waiting and no matchmaking. Obviously it’s not a flaw with XBL.

If you don’t like it, don’t pay for it. But be honest and don’t make this claim that it’s a broken failure, because about 17 million people seem to disagree.

30

17 million is a flyspeck next to the number of Vista users. What’s the general consensus on that product, is it a perfect product or is it fundamentally broken? Is it a success because it has a lot of users? It certainly isn’t according to it’s press, in fact it has become a buzzword for failure in the industry.

But Vista has one big edge over XBL: Vista is profitable. XBox has been a sinkhole of money for Microsoft. You think 17 million users means they are successful? Ha! In order to be successful, XBL needs more like 50 million users. And they’re not going to get there if they don’t improve their experience.

I certainly believe that you enjoy it. I also believe that if I spent tons of money on peripheral expenses, like voice talk, the driving wheel for driving games, every expansion map pack sold for every game I like to play, every Xbox game available on the market until I find one I like (not to mention the need to buy them immediately upon release, since 18 months later the online experience becomes unplayable since the matches are unbalanced,) spend hours finding a group I like playing with, and somehow deal with the financial and health impact upon my life from sacrificing all this time and money sitting on the couch playing games, if I did all that I’d like it too. Or perhaps I would just say I did.

But you know what? Most people aren’t going to do that. Most people want to sit down at the end of the day, game for an hour or two, and go to bed. They want entertainment, not a lifestyle. And customers like these are absolutely the best ones to have, because they cost the least to please. All XBL needs to provide is a simple experience for users like these.

But… XBL is no good for these kinds of customers. They can’t even make the experience smooth enough that casual customers can link their hotmail accounts without calling the 24 hour service line for assistance. That is an incredibly low bar they are failing to reach. Or to put it another way; XBL totally, totally sucks.

They aren’t going to become successful by pretending their shortcomings are nonexistent. Nice of you to be such a loyal fan, though.

31

Goddamn Microsoft… tries to play online with ps3 i love you, microsoft

32

Oh, and for the record, I spent years of my life building Vista. It’s no fun turning on the TV and seeing every critic in the world calling your product a dog, especially after pouring your heart and soul into it. But everyone inside of Microsoft knows that Vista fell way short of where it should have. It might have been different if some of us on the inside had been a little more brutally honest with ourselves about its shortcomings. XBL deserves the same kind of self scrutiny.

33

XBL is considered the gold standard of online services on consoles. And the Xbox has been profitable for a while now. It hasn’t made Microsoft back all their money yet, but it’s only a matter of time seeing as how the PS3 continues to become less relevant (saleswise) every month and Nintendo is reaching out to a different set of gamers.

34

Guess again. Microsoft just started to turn a profit on it last year: http://www.pcworld.com/article/148982/xbox_delivers_a_profit.html

But profits are already dropping: http://www.bingegamer.net/2009/despite-more-revenue-xbox-360-division-profits-down/

MSN was profitable for a little while too, then it went away. And is XBL is the gold standard, that means there is a lot of improvement for someone else to come into play.

Long time ago we used to talk internally about how the MSN search engine was the gold standard. Back then we were all sure nobody would ever make serious money in internet search. Know how that one turned out?

35

Oh hey, remember when Microsoft owned the gold standard of online reference sites? About that:http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/162245/microsoft_to_shut_down_encarta_web_sites.html

36

First yearly profit, yes. But the Xbox turned it’s first quarterly profit when Halo 2 was released.

As for profits dropping, they dropped from 5.02 billion to 4.99 billion. Not exactly a huge earth-shattering disaster. And it’s even easily explained. In 2007, Halo 3 was released. In 2008, Halo 3 had already been on shelves for a year.

Do you see how easy that is?

37

I remember the days when MSN Groups was considered the gold standard of social networking… ahh, those heady days of yore: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-10067137-36.html?tag=mncol;txt

38

Sorry, chum, that isn’t 4.99b profit for XBox… that’s 4.99b *revenue *from the entire Entertainment and Devices division. This one makes it a little clearer:http://www.gamespot.com/news/6194936.html.

And to use your own argument - in order for XBL to stay profitable it needs a Halo 3 sized release every year. Think that’s going to happen?

39

None of those industries (at the time) could ever hope to compare to the video game industry (today) in terms of total dollars. And I can’t recall a time when MSN ever owned any of those industries the way they own the HD video game console space.

And frankly I can’t remember a time when MSN Groups were ever the gold standard of anything. Yahoo Groups were (and still are) where it’s at for that type of thing. And citing Encarta as a falled project is just lame. All encyclopedias that aren’t Wikipedia are hurting because none of them are free.

It is this year. Halo 3: ODST is coming in the fall. On top of that, a ton of Xbox 360 releases are outselling their PS3 counterparts by huge numbers with no effort from MS at all. That’s like money in the bank for MS.

40

Hey, anybody remember when Windows Live Onecare was the new gold standard for antivirus? When was that, six months ago? Well, it doesn’t matter anymore, anyway: Windows Live OneCare to be Replaced with Free Anti-Virus Solution