[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
However, the perennial cop-haters
[/QUOTE]
It’s just the cop-haters. And the dog people. And animal-lovers, and people with homes, and family or children. And probably the drug-legalization nuts. And gun-lovers – don’t forget those “I have a gun ready in case of a home invasion” people, they’ve gotta be hating warrantless no-knock invasions. And those anti-government-intrusion Republicans. And human-rights liberals. And the whole province of Labrador.
Other than those outliers, I’m sure we’re all on the same side.
[QUOTE=Sailboat]
A dog isn’t human, but it’s manfiestly “somebody.” A family dog is a family member.
Let’s not forget that bullets go right through dogs and into back bedroons full of innocent, doe-eyed little white girls. Firing the bullet at a fleeing dog is basically saying “I don’t care if I hit one or seventeen little children, I’m getting me some fleeing Labrador.”
It’s not the cops’ fault that the bullets didn’t strike other parties; just luck.
Sailboat
[/QUOTE]
A college buddy of my dad’s was a cop. He fired a shotgun at a dog; one of the pieces of shot went through a garage and killed a two-year old kid. My dad’s buddy quit the force.
> A dog isn’t human, but it’s manfiestly “somebody.” A family dog is a family
> member.
Now you’re getting really desperate. “Somebody” does not refer to nonhumans. As I said before, the case against the cops is plenty good as it stands already. You don’t have to exaggerate it.
> It’s not the cops’ fault that the bullets didn’t strike other parties; just luck.
I said absolutely nothing about where the bullet could have struck. This comment has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said. Once again, the case against the cops is great as it stands. You don’t have to throw anything else into it.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
They didn’t have a no knock warrant. They didn’t even try to get one. If they were really concerned that the mayor was going to eat the 32 pounds of weed that the cops had left on his porch, they could have asked for a no knock warrant. I seriosuly doubt that a terrified, screaming mother-in-law absolves them of the need to knock and announce themselves (these guys weren’t even in uniform). Even if they wnted to make that kind of argument, they chose to LIE instead and say they had a warrant they didn’t have.
[/QUOTE]
This is kind of the meat of the deal here. I’m usually pro-cop but this mess is inexcusable. There is not a single thing they did right in this deal. The warrant wasn’t no-knock, the weed was delivered to the MAYOR of a community, which warrants a lighter touch than the stormtroopers provided. They did a high-risk service on a low-risk client using bad intel and no recon. I’d bet they even used flash-bangs :rolleyes:
Everyone associated with this mess should be out of a job. Up to and including the police chief.
[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
I’m sure that Dio
While I agree with you that attention should be paid to detail, I’d like to remind everyone that being Mayor doesn’t amount to a pinch of owl shit. Unless you’ve just emerged from the cave where you’ve spent the last 40 years, there have been no shortage of Mayors running afoul of the law.
[/QUOTE]
If you’re involved with public safety at all you know owl shit comment that isn’t true. Secondly, as I pointed out, even if the mayor is bad, you don’t do a high-risk warrant service on an elected public official unless you know damn good and well that official poses a high-risk. This is ineptitude in the highest.
I caught part of an interview with the mayor on CNN yesterday. He said the reason given for busting the door down was because his MIL saw the agents milling around and waved at them. Apparently if someone in the house sees the people serving the warrant, they don’t have to knock.
Come to think of it, that’s kinda how they did it on The Wire. Maybe that’s where Maryland cops are getting their training. Nah. They’d be doing a better job.
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
If you’re involved with public safety at all you know owl shit comment that isn’t true. Secondly, as I pointed out, even if the mayor is bad, you don’t do a high-risk warrant service on an elected public official unless you know damn good and well that official poses a high-risk. This is ineptitude in the highest.
[/QUOTE]
The problem is, at the time this thread was first started, we didn’t know very much. It could just as easily have turned into a situation where the Mayor was abusing the cover of his office to move weed, and the reason why the locals hadn’t been informed was owing to fear they’d violate the integrity of the investigation. Perhaps there was in investigation which involved the Mayor AND local law enforcement?
Once you’ve shown me a decent space of elected officials free from criminal activity, I’ll think about giving a Mayor a pass. I won’t hold my breath.
That’s why all I asked for was a moment of calm for the dust to settle and determine what, exactly was going on. It seems now to be a clusterfuck, so let the courts sort it out.
[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
The problem is, at the time this thread was first started, we didn’t know very much. It could just as easily have turned into a situation where the Mayor was abusing the cover of his office to move weed, and the reason why the locals hadn’t been informed was owing to fear they’d violate the integrity of the investigation. Perhaps there was in investigation which involved the Mayor AND local law enforcement?
Once you’ve shown me a decent space of elected officials free from criminal activity, I’ll think about giving a Mayor a pass. I won’t hold my breath.
That’s why all I asked for was a moment of calm for the dust to settle and determine what, exactly was going on. It seems now to be a clusterfuck, so let the courts sort it out.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter what WE do or don’t know, it’s what the officers serving the warrants do or don’t know. They “didn’t know” this was the house of the mayor, they “didn’t know” that the mayor wasn’t moving vast quantities of weed, they “didn’t know” who was in the house. You could write a book about what they “didn’t know” which all leads to this. If you’re the police chief of a department (or sherriff or constable, whatever) and you know that you’re serving a warrant on a sitting mayor, you bring in help in the form of State Police, the alphabet rangers if applicable, anybody and everybody to make sure shit like this doesn’t happen. Because they didn’t and because it did, it shows that the cops involved didn’t and likely don’t do any background about the house they’re ready to bust into. What will happen next, because of this, is that someone who is less of a victim will shoot and kill one or two of the entry team members who will die as ‘heroes’ in a job that never should have been done in the first place.
I’m all for high-risk warrant service when it’s necessary, and sure, there have been mayors guilty of all sorts of fuckery, but show me the last one that moved 17 kilos of weed. From his front porch. Seriously. Further, it isn’t up to anyone to show you crime-free elected officials (which I’d put, percentage wise at 80 to 90% of all elected officials are innocent of most if not all jailable crimes), that whole guilty-until-proven-innocent thing takes care of that for us, dontcha know.
The courts are not doing their jobs if these cops keep theirs.
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
It doesn’t matter what WE do or don’t know, it’s what the officers serving the warrants do or don’t know. They “didn’t know” this was the house of the mayor, they “didn’t know” that the mayor wasn’t moving vast quantities of weed, they “didn’t know” who was in the house. You could write a book about what they “didn’t know” which all leads to this. If you’re the police chief of a department (or sherriff or constable, whatever) and you know that you’re serving a warrant on a sitting mayor, you bring in help in the form of State Police, the alphabet rangers if applicable, anybody and everybody to make sure shit like this doesn’t happen. Because they didn’t and because it did, it shows that the cops involved didn’t and likely don’t do any background about the house they’re ready to bust into. What will happen next, because of this, is that someone who is less of a victim will shoot and kill one or two of the entry team members who will die as ‘heroes’ in a job that never should have been done in the first place.
I’m all for high-risk warrant service when it’s necessary, and sure, there have been mayors guilty of all sorts of fuckery, but show me the last one that moved 17 kilos of weed. From his front porch. Seriously. Further, it isn’t up to anyone to show you crime-free elected officials (which I’d put, percentage wise at 80 to 90% of all elected officials are innocent of most if not all jailable crimes), that whole guilty-until-proven-innocent thing takes care of that for us, dontcha know.
The courts are not doing their jobs if these cops keep theirs.
[/QUOTE]
Are YOU familiar with interjurisdictional protocol for warrant service within the state of Maryland?
I’m not, either. Which means both of us ought to let those better versed in what is or isn’t appropriate weigh in to the investigation which is taking place rather than play Monday morning quarterback.
[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
The problem is, at the time this thread was first started, we didn’t know very much. It could just as easily have turned into a situation where the Mayor was abusing the cover of his office to move weed, and the reason why the locals hadn’t been informed was owing to fear they’d violate the integrity of the investigation. Perhaps there was in investigation which involved the Mayor AND local law enforcement?
Once you’ve shown me a decent space of elected officials free from criminal activity, I’ll think about giving a Mayor a pass. I won’t hold my breath.
That’s why all I asked for was a moment of calm for the dust to settle and determine what, exactly was going on. It seems now to be a clusterfuck, so let the courts sort it out.
[/QUOTE]
From the article dated August 7: Police said they have arrested a deliveryman and another man they said are involved in a plot to smuggle 417 pounds of marijuana. According to authorities, the plot involved shipping marijuana in packages addressed to unknowing recipients, including one sent last week to the home of the mayor of Berwyn Heights.
Bolding mine.
This thread was started on the 8th and we already knew the mayor was not involved. Why don’t you go back to making shit up about the Baltimore Fire Department.
[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
Not sure of the legal implications, but the story I read indicated that MIL screamed as the SWAT officers approached. From the perspective of the officers, do you still knock, affording the people inside additional time to find weapons, or just figure, “Fuck it, they know we’re here” and proceed to enter?
Sure, these were allegedly innocent folks caught up in a strange operation, but drug dealers in general don’t set out tea and scones when the PD knocks. Surprise and speed reduce the opportunity for criminal persons to respond with lethal force against law enforcement.
You need to write better headlines, Dio. I thought maybe you were describing a drunken hookup with a slutty third cousin last weekend in Garrett County.
[/QUOTE]
What a pathetic response. The police were afraid so they should be allowed to violate your civil rights. Kick your door down and shoot your dogs and tie up the family. Someone was scared ,but it was not the cops.
And doors do not fall down. When someone beats it down people do react. That is not slipping quietly and quickly in.
From the article dated August 7: Police said they have arrested a deliveryman and another man they said are involved in a plot to smuggle 417 pounds of marijuana. According to authorities, the plot involved shipping marijuana in packages addressed to unknowing recipients, including one sent last week to the home of the mayor of Berwyn Heights.
Bolding mine.
This thread was started on the 8th and we already knew the mayor was not involved. Why don’t you go back to making shit up about the Baltimore Fire Department.
[/QUOTE]
Why don’t you cram it up your ass?
I’m aware of the scenario regarding the shipment of weed to unknowing recipients. I was offering the possibility that just maybe there was a separate investigation which hadn’t been disclosed, because, you know, if the police print who they are investigating in the Baltimore Sun, the element of surprise is kinda fucked up. Like you.
[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
Why don’t you cram it up your ass?
I’m aware of the scenario regarding the shipment of weed to unknowing recipients. I was offering the possibility that just maybe there was a separate investigation which hadn’t been disclosed, because, you know, if the police print who they are investigating in the Baltimore Sun, the element of surprise is kinda fucked up. Like you.
[/QUOTE]
A separate investigation like the FBI’s looking into the casefor rights violations? Did you offer that one up as a possibility? This is my county, dammit, and I am tired of this kind of surprise.
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
It doesn’t matter what WE do or don’t know, it’s what the officers serving the warrants do or don’t know. They “didn’t know” this was the house of the mayor, they “didn’t know” that the mayor wasn’t moving vast quantities of weed, they “didn’t know” who was in the house. You could write a book about what they “didn’t know” which all leads to this. If you’re the police chief of a department (or sherriff or constable, whatever) and you know that you’re serving a warrant on a sitting mayor, you bring in help in the form of State Police, the alphabet rangers if applicable, anybody and everybody to make sure shit like this doesn’t happen. Because they didn’t and because it did, it shows that the cops involved didn’t and likely don’t do any background about the house they’re ready to bust into. What will happen next, because of this, is that someone who is less of a victim will shoot and kill one or two of the entry team members who will die as ‘heroes’ in a job that never should have been done in the first place.
I’m all for high-risk warrant service when it’s necessary, and sure, there have been mayors guilty of all sorts of fuckery, but show me the last one that moved 17 kilos of weed. From his front porch. Seriously. Further, it isn’t up to anyone to show you crime-free elected officials (which I’d put, percentage wise at 80 to 90% of all elected officials are innocent of most if not all jailable crimes), that whole guilty-until-proven-innocent thing takes care of that for us, dontcha know.
The courts are not doing their jobs if these cops keep theirs.
[/QUOTE]
Also, please keep in mind that moving weed by the kilo does not justify no-knock entry. Because of the constitution, no-knock is reserved for cases in which the police can persuade a judge that specific criteria apply.
[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
Why don’t you cram it up your ass?
I’m aware of the scenario regarding the shipment of weed to unknowing recipients. I was offering the possibility that just maybe there was a separate investigation which hadn’t been disclosed, because, you know, if the police print who they are investigating in the Baltimore Sun, the element of surprise is kinda fucked up. Like you.
[/QUOTE]
Even from the beginning you had to be splitting hairs to try and support the Sherriff’s actions. They violently entered the home of a citizen, then lied to cover it up. They used deadly force when none was remotely required. They fucked up royally. Are you bucking for a date to the Policeman’s Ball or something?
[QUOTE=danceswithcats]
Are YOU familiar with interjurisdictional protocol for warrant service within the state of Maryland?
I’m not, either. Which means both of us ought to let those better versed in what is or isn’t appropriate weigh in to the investigation which is taking place rather than play Monday morning quarterback.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t need to be familiar with a single law in the state of Maryland, I’m already versed in the first Commandment of Law Enforcement which is:
Cover thine own ass. (which is best done to PREVENT a fuck up)
Warrant service is as serious a business as it gets. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING (with respect to individual rights) is more sacred than the three inches past the threshhold of my front door. It’s clear they didn’t and don’t take that position, and the position that they’re in now is MUCH worse. If they would have asked for help, protocol or not, this wouldn’t even have been a news story because there would have been, just maybe, the right set of eyes on the intel that would have known the right way to handle it.
This mishigoss is at best inept police work, at worst corruption so ingrained that the entire force suffers from it.
This isn’t some douchebag skater beat-off with a bad attitude and no respect for lawful authority catching a street adjustment, this is a team of heavily armed highly trained men ‘accidentally’ kicking in the front door of an elected official. There’s not an ‘oops, sorry’ button or anger management classes for that, that’s something that all involved need to answer for.
Boy, am I glad I got the hell out of Prince George’s County 11 years ago.
It sure sounds a hell of a lot different from when I grew up there 10-20 years ago. FTR, I lived in Mitchellville, and there never seemed to be any trouble. I certainly heard nasty things about Bowie high schools, though. Another FTR: Mitchellville was mostly black and firmly upper-middle-class. I agree with Wendell Wagner that it could only be considered anything less than “wealthy” by comparison with neighboring counties. I had no idea what poverty was and could not really wrap my head around the concept of not being able to afford something you wanted. It just didn’t really come up. Not that we had Bentleys and servants, but I didn’t know anyone who had any real financial problems, and in fact went to school with an NBA player’s son.
I’d say that’s putting it mildly. Apparently, they’re a murderous gang of thugs who force drugs on unsuspecting people, invade their homes and then kill them/their loved ones/their pets for no reason. Maybe they were on drugs?
The police fucked up in this situation. That they didn’t bother to review the warrant does not bode well. I am not familiar with Maryland law, but generally if the cops exceed the scope of a warrant or act without one, they can’t introduce the evidence at trial and the criminal goes free.
In this particular case, they didn’t get a no knock warrant because the judge thought that the situation didn’t call for it. The police went hunting for a SWAT team to serve the search warrant because there team was unavailable and they didn’t bother to talk to the Chief of Police for Berwyn Heights who would have told them that it wasn’t necessary and who would have gone with them and had the Mayor come out.
They then lied about it on TV stating that they had a no knock warrant, thus further eroding the public’s trust in the police.
The events described in the OP happened about a mile south of where I live. I consider this description to be rather racist. Prince George’s County is only less than wealthy by the standards of the Washington D.C. metropolitan area, where several of the counties in the metro area are among the ten richest counties in the U.S. (going by average household income). I believe Prince George’s County is one of the one hundred richest counties in the U.S. No, it’s not as rich as Montgomery County or Fairfax County, but by the standards of most of the U.S. it’s actually more well-off than average.
Until about thirty-five years ago, Prince George’s County had the reputation of being rather “rednecky.” It wasn’t poor then either, but it tended to have more working-class whites than the other parts of the Washington metro area and only a fairly small number of blacks. There was a large growth in the black population of D.C. from about the 1930’s till about the mid-1970’s. This happened for the same reason as it happened in many other big American cities. A lot of blacks decided to leave the rural South. The easiest place for them to find a place to live in the North was in the middle of cities, where there were already small black neighborhoods. D.C., even back before the 1930’s, already had a significant black population. The same thing happened as in many big American cities from the 1930’s to the 1970’s - blacks moved in (generally from the rural South) and whites moved out. By the mid-1970’s Washington was a little over 70% black. Many other large American cities also acquired large black populations.
Then in the mid-1970’s many whites realized that inner-city homes were quite cheap and conveniently close to work. Gentrification started in many big American cities. Whites moved into the middle of the city and blacks moved out, generally to the suburbs with the cheapest house prices. This meant Prince George’s County for the Washington metro area. Now Washington is less than 60% black, perhaps close to only 50% black. Prince George’s County is now majority black. P. G. Country didn’t become any poorer as its population shifted from majority white to majority black. Indeed, it became slightly richer. Many of the working-class whites moved to Southern Maryland.
[/QUOTE]
I have read the claim that it is the only place in U.S. history to go from majority white to majority black and end up wealthier afterwards than before the transition - I have no reason to doubt this but I would love a reliable cite … In any event It is roughly the 120th richest County in the Country and is often billed as the “richest majority black jurisdiction” or some such in the nation - how that is actually figured … IOW include/exclude to make this true I am not sure …
… but whatever. Basically it is safe to say there is a sizable black middle, professional and upper class in the county along with a significant percentage of working class whites. That is what overwhelmingly lives in PG & not a bunch of gang bangers in a drug haven needing extreme Police tactics to quell the violence. I feel for those good folks (and the working class blacks living struggling for a better life) that these jackass police have given them all a black eye and given people an odd idea of PG
Not a great ad for National Harbor which is a gargantuan construction project by American (but not by Iraq or Dubai standards)
