Fucking Stupid Democrat Fraudulent Voters

[bup]

Sorry for the Fox news link, but the CNN ‘article’ is a video.

Ohio has pretty good evidence that a bunch of Obama supporters voted multiple times in the election. The CNN video has a woman saying, “yes, I voted twice.”

You fucking idiots! You fucking stupid morons, you’re making the Republicans’ voter ID pushes reasonable! Never mind that voter ID laws wouldn’t have stopped you from sending in an absentee ballot and voting as yourself - nuance will be lost.

You cheated, you fucked up the voting process, you suck. You didn’t deliver Ohio for Obama (I’m reasonably certain - they’re investigating like 19 people, not 140,000), but you *have *made it so that *thousands *of legal voters in *all states *will be prevented from voting in future elections.

Fucking cunting twats.

[RTFirefly]

Here’sa link to the Cincinnati paper. Which of course is a bit less sensational and more evenhanded than Fox.

It seems that most of the problems had to do with voters thinking they had reason to believe that their absentee ballot might not have gotten there - didn’t think they’d mailed it, told later that they’d failed to put sufficient postage on it to be delivered, handed it to a campaign worker who said they’d see that it got delivered, stuff like that.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Hey this is in my town! Go Cincinnati!

Woot!

[Bricker]

@RTFirefly

Here’sa link to the Cincinnati paper. Which of course is a bit less sensational and more evenhanded than Fox.

It seems that most of the problems had to do with voters thinking they had reason to believe that their absentee ballot might not have gotten there - didn’t think they’d mailed it, told later that they’d failed to put sufficient postage on it to be delivered, handed it to a campaign worker who said they’d see that it got delivered, stuff like that.

Yes, stuff like that:

Richardson claimed she had submitted an absentee ballot, but was afraid her vote would not count so she also voted in person.

But, also, stuff like this:

She also said she voted in the name of her granddaughter and yet another person… . . Three other absentee ballots in the names of different people were submitted to the Board of Elections from Richardson’s address on Nov. 1. Officials say the handwriting on those ballots is similar and that they were all received together, on the same day that Richardson’s absentee ballot arrived at the office. Richardson maintains that some of the other voters live at her house.

[Folly]

Aside from someone filling out someone else’s absentee ballot (which I suspect happens all the time), was there a case where it wasn’t a provisional ballot that was cast the second time?
If someone’s eligibility to vote is in question, a provisional ballot is the correct procedure.

[RTFirefly]

The granddaughter:

Richardson’s granddaughter, India Richardson, confirmed to Fox News that her grandmother voted for her, by submitting an absentee ballot in her name. India told Fox News that she is not angry, and gave her permission to cast her absentee ballot.

I said this in the 102 year old voter thread:

@RTFirefly

I see two obvious vulnerabilities to mail-in voting, one before and one after mailing.

The ‘before’ one is the potential for ‘helping’ seniors with their voting when they’re no longer mentally competent, particularly in a nursing home where one could vote on behalf of dozens of elderly people at a time. I’m not sure what one does about that, but it’s probably not a huge problem. Still, it’s worth keeping in mind that roughly 2 million people reside in nursing homes, a number that’s only going to go up as my g-g-generation ages, and that we might have to think about that down the road.

(Stuff also probably goes on like a church pastor telling his flock to show up on a given evening with their mail-in ballots, so he can tell them all how to vote. But if fully competent adults wish to let their pastor tell them how to vote, that is their choice AFAIAC, and nothing needs to be done about it.)

YMMV, of course, but I don’t see the cause for outrage here.

If you do, however, please be outraged at the evangelical churches where the sort of behavior I’ve described very definitely happens on a larger-scale basis.

[bup]

@RTFirefly

It seems that most of the problems had to do with voters thinking they had reason to believe that their absentee ballot might not have gotten there - didn’t think they’d mailed it, told later that they’d failed to put sufficient postage on it to be delivered, handed it to a campaign worker who said they’d see that it got delivered, stuff like that.

I’m willing to call: “thinking you might have screwed up your absentee ballot’s mailing, so voted in person,” bullshit.

Even if it’s true (and it’s damned hard to believe), knowing that your absentee ballot *might *have gotten there should preclude you from voting in person.

Filling out and mailing somebody else’s absentee ballot is also bullshit.

[Bricker]

@RTFirefly

The granddaughter:
I said this in the 102 year old voter thread:
YMMV, of course, but I don’t see the cause for outrage here.

If you do, however, please be outraged at the evangelical churches where the sort of behavior I’ve described very definitely happens on a larger-scale basis.

I don’t agree. I think there’s a huge difference between a person who fills out their own ballot based on what someone else tells them to do, and a person who fills out another person’s ballot and sends it in – even with the other voter’s permission. I make room, of course, for cases in which that would be permissible – a blind person may require assistance – but there is a principled distinction to be drawn between that type of assistance and the behavior at issue here.

[Jas09]

Thank God state legislatures are cracking down hard on absentee ballots, as voter ID requirements would have done nothing to prevent any of the listed violations as far as I can tell.

[elucidator]

Indeed. One is of trivial significance, and the other isn’t very important.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@bup

I’m willing to call: “thinking you might have screwed up your absentee ballot’s mailing, so voted in person,” bullshit.

Even if it’s true (and it’s damned hard to believe), knowing that your absentee ballot *might *have gotten there should preclude you from voting in person.

Filling out and mailing somebody else’s absentee ballot is also bullshit.

Agree.

I’m not sure how mandatory voter ID at the polls is going to fix this, however.

[Czarcasm]

@Bricker

I don’t agree. I think there’s a huge difference between a person who fills out their own ballot based on what someone else tells them to do, and a person who fills out another person’s ballot and sends it in – even with the other voter’s permission. I make room, of course, for cases in which that would be permissible – a blind person may require assistance – but there is a principled distinction to be drawn between that type of assistance and the behavior at issue here.

I’m in agrement. Even with the best of intentions it puts out a perception that weakens attitudes towards the whole process and gives strength to the opposing party.

[RTFirefly]

@Bricker

I don’t agree. I think there’s a huge difference between a person who fills out their own ballot based on what someone else tells them to do, and a person who fills out another person’s ballot and sends it in – even with the other voter’s permission. I make room, of course, for cases in which that would be permissible – a blind person may require assistance – but there is a principled distinction to be drawn between that type of assistance and the behavior at issue here.

I guess I don’t see its being that different. I’m thinking maybe 30 days of community service for every ballot you fill out for someone else with their permission is appropriate. If you do this on a scale where it might make a difference, you’ll spend a few years picking up trash in the park to pay for your sins. I think it would get the message across.

Now filling out someone’s ballot without their permission - I’d be thinking 30 days in jail for each such ballot. So if you’re doing this on a scale to make a difference in election outcomes, you’d be out of circulation for a loooooong time.

[hotflungwok]

Um, why isn’t there something in the vote tabulating process that eliminates redundant votes?

[bup]

@Euphonious_Polemic

I’m not sure how mandatory voter ID at the polls is going to fix this, however.

It won’t. But it will help those laws get passed. If you object, you’ll be shouted down.

And fuckers like the people in the article are hurting the country, and hurting the party they think they’re helping.

[Folly]

@hotflungwok

Um, why isn’t there something in the vote tabulating process that eliminates redundant votes?

There is. I haven’t seen anything yet that shows there were any redundant votes.

[Marley23]

This is just the break the Romney campaign was waiting for.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Marley23

This is just the break the Romney campaign was waiting for.

Well, as bup has pointed out, it IS the break the NEXT campaign will be exploiting.

[Bricker]

@Jas09

Thank God state legislatures are cracking down hard on absentee ballots, as voter ID requirements would have done nothing to prevent any of the listed violations as far as I can tell.

Voter ID requirements are not intended to directly stop a violation. Instead, they are intended to create a framework that contains legally sufficient evidence for prosecution.

In this case, of course, the voter admits voting in person. But since we can seldom rely on the criminal admitting his own acts as the sole basis for prosecution, Voter ID would help because it would allow the prosecution to prove the act of in-person voting. If the voter admits casting an absentee ballot but denies in-person voting, and there is no voter ID scheme in place, prosecution is generally not possible.

[Bricker]

@RTFirefly

I guess I don’t see its being that different. I’m thinking maybe 30 days of community service for every ballot you fill out for someone else with their permission is appropriate. If you do this on a scale where it might make a difference, you’ll spend a few years picking up trash in the park to pay for your sins. I think it would get the message across.

Now filling out someone’s ballot without their permission - I’d be thinking 30 days in jail for each such ballot. So if you’re doing this on a scale to make a difference in election outcomes, you’d be out of circulation for a loooooong time.

The problem as I see it is that people – especially relatives – may not have truly given permission, but also not want to see their relative go to jail. So they may falsely claim, after the fact, that permission had been given.

The rule that forbids proxy votes exists to prevent such events.

I agree with you: it does make a difference that permission was given. But I don’t think I quite agree with your proposed scale.