Would indeed be properly classified as you talking out of your ass?
Not at all. You made a statement, then backed it up with anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence that came from the confines of your own family, as a matter of fact. So I don’t think it’s asking too much to expect actual evidence that has some bearing on the world outside of your relatives.
Then don’t speak as if you know what in hell you’re talking about.
Well, maybe if the members of your family weren’t “any dumbfuck off the street”, they could get better jobs where they are payed what they’re worth, nu?
Well, I always expect that people are assholes. Fortunately, there are those such as yourself who keep my expectations alive.
Well, all thanks for your approval. Now I’ll be able to sleep tonight. And strikers usually have a pretty good reason for striking, and don’t resort to terrorism. You should get out more.
yeah, if citing examples that i’ve witnessed is talking out my ass, i guess so. i thought examples were evidence, but i guess not.
so backing up with evidence that i’ve seen isn’t ‘evidence’. well i’m glad i know that things that happen to my family isn’t ‘real evidence’. where do i go to get this? your family? are they good examples from which i can draw evidence? or do i have to go to the Ministry of Examples and get them from there? i’m going to wager that there is no hard evidence whatsoever that can prove whether or not unions are still useful. i guess we could go for a year without unions, then go for a year where everyone was in a union, and compare the results. but that’d take too long, huh? what evidence are you looking for? if you give me the bare minimum–the least ‘factual’ evidence you’d accept, tell me, and i’ll see if i can find one.
is insulting members of another’s family par for your arguments? but, no, you’re right. maybe if my parents had gone to college, even a semester, they could get better jobs. my dad works for the government. union, too. no problem with them. he didn’t want to join, but had to. mom’s in teamsters. didn’t want to join, had to. she packs boxes on an assembly line. tough work huh? all day, just stands there. and they wanted to strike. because the 11 dollars or so an hour wasn’t enough (because half of the workers didn’t get money from their baby’ dad or something). but no, you’re right. if my mom had some marketable skills, she could get a better job. thanks for my family “dumbfucks” though.
in their minds yes. all unions achieve by striking is hurting the company they love (ok…they probably don’t love it). ups workers strike: people lose trust in ups (well, i did). ever since, their service has been shitty too. never use them again. same with verizon. if i had to use them, i don’t know what i’d do. any time i get poor service from a company, i tend not to go back…and by striking, unions usually create poor service at the expense of the company–which is exactly what the unions want. kinda like biting the hand that feeds you.
maybe it’s not union sponsored, but it happens. that’s something you can’t deny.
Use some fucking capitol letters, uber! Your rambling posts are hard enough to read as it is. Why make it harder?
As long as we’re on the subject of personal anecdotes, why not tell you about my supervisor? He worked docks for a couple years and saved up enough money to go to college. Now he has a nice office job with a good salary. Where do you think he’d be today if he had been earning $6 an hour on the dock? Probably still earning $6 an hour on the dock would be my guess …
I live in a right to work state. What this means is that unions don’t control everything and have to be somewhat honest. They can’t force you to join.
This provides a balance of power. If a business becomes overly obnoxtious towards its employees, they unionize and force the issue. If a business treats its employees fairly, they don’t unionize and everyone benefits. Wages as a whole tend to be resonable for everyone. However ther are enough asshole companies that forget that employees are an asset that the unions are kept in fair demand.
In short, unions are still nescessary because they provide a check against greedy corporations.
Sure they are. They’re just not quite as inclusive as studies and the like.
‘Evidence’? Oh, hell no! I prefer to think of them as ‘cautionary tale’.
Oh, c’mon. With all of those studies being done on any number of things, surely you can come up with something that will back you up. Or are you going to give up already?
No, just a side hobby. Besides, boychik, those were your words, not mine. As far as the hardships suffered by your family, it sounds less than pleasant. Have any of them ever tried to improve their lot in life? It’s worked wonders for me.
And of course they hurt the company when they strike. The same company that has done something, real or imagined, that they don’t care for. I’ll bet that if you ask your mother, she would tell you that she doesn’t enjoy a very ‘open door’ policy at work. Why, pray tell, should she love the company that she works for? Where I feel that she is fully within her rights to strike for better treatment, you think otherwise. I imagine that Thanksgiving is just a joy at your house.
and, inre terrorism:
Nor would I try to deny it. Just as, I’m sure, you wouldn’t deny that some of that terrorism also is directed toward the union members?
Exactly. For some reason, many people who complain about unions use this stupid argument. At one time they argue that anyone can pick up and leave a job if they want. You don’t like it? Leave. Hence unions are outdated and outmoded. then they tuyrn around and complain about people being froced to join unions. Which is it? hmmmm?
I’m a member of management, and something of a student of economics. Believe me, unconstrained and unregulated corporate interaction with the working class will result in predictable things–it is a kind of monopoly, which is a system that behaves in a manner that is not at all surprising. Unions are a monopoly of sorts responding to the corporate one. And, yes, I would hold that pre-union corporate America, in the aggregate, amounted to a kind of monopoly. The worker had no more benevolent avenue to pursue. You don’t like working 75 hours/week for peanuts? Too bad…
You needn’t go far back in our country’s history to find examples of how the pre-union workers were treated. What would possibly lead us to believe that if unions were disbanded that a kinder, gentler corporate “father” would emerge? Because we’re nicer guys now?
I close with a single thought: Henry Ford had such power that he was able to order the police to open fire on his workers when the first signs of union organization emerged. He had his goons attack women and brutalize union organizers, which he denied despite photographs of the brutality. Cite. He had reason to be afraid–the jig was up. And we have no reason to believe that Ford workers would be treated any differently in 2000 if there were no unions.
You agree to do something for a company.
The company agrees to give you money for doing something.
Therefore:The company is required to adopt you and pay you a “good living” that somebody somewhere pulled out of their ass. Capitalism is simple. Demand somehing. If the other party will not offer it go somewhere else. If nobody will offer it, you ahve two choices. First: switch positions. If you can pay more, make your own government. Second: lower your demands.
Creating a monopoly is not exaxtly playing nice or by the rules.
You sure that was Henry Ford?
I’m thinking of the Homestead STrike in 1892 when Frick hired the Pinkerton Guards.
Uber, you don’t care if kids work 17 hour days and aren’t allowed to eat or pee just so you can get five cents off your stupid cd?
Well fuck you. How would you feel if that was YOUR KID?
You’re so concerned about YOUR MOM being exploited by the union, why don’t you give a rat’s ass about someone else’s child working under horrible conditions?
Hypocrite much?
gee, I thought this thread was about a union organized to promote fucking. And then I noticed the title was plural…“You mean there are SEVERAL of them?”
Gee, I would sign up for that. Maybe if I couldn’t get any fucking work, then the union would send me someplace where somebody needed some serious fucking.
Would I have to take classes for six years and be a fucking apprentice before being a fucking journeyman? Can I get a fucking degree, or is it just a fucking certificate, like a two-year junior fucking college thing? Are there different fucking specialties, like Siamese Basket fucking or Vietnamese Toejamb fucking or is it a fucking generalized program where you learn fucking everything?
What’s the fucking pay scale? The more years I fucking work, do I get paid fucking more? If everybody fucking likes me, can I get to be elected fucking union president? Do I get paid from the time I leave the fucking shop? Do I get a fucking contract, or is it just fucking time-and-materials work? Can I drive a fucking company car? How much fucking money do I have to put back into the fucking union? How much fucking overtime can I work?
I guess the AFL-CIO is the American Fucking Labor-Certified Intercourse Organization.
All I can say is that because of my union, I am not forced to work overtime (as the nurses are). Going to school for 40 hours, then having to work God-knows-how-much on top of it is a bit much. It’s also because of my union that I may have the opportunity to negotiate a raise.
There is a downside. The union tends to get involved in setting employment policy, and some of these tend to get pretty stupid (those involving leave, for example. I have to ask for my vacation days six months in advance, then pray someone with more seniority doesn’t want the same days, or else I have to call in sick.)
Blaming unions for the high prices in America is like blaming cars for global warming. Sure, it’s part of the problem, but it’s not the entire cause.