fucking unions

The BBQ Pit
1

I would just like to reiterate my opposition to unions. There was a time in this country where unions served a needed function. That time has passed.

I say this because on NPR this morning they played a radio commercial that’s being played in Washington by the Verizon union. It included gems such as:

“Verizon forces us to work overtime every day. I need more personal time.”

and

“I have to work overtime every week. I would rather spend that time with my baby.”
All that I have to say to that is, IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT GET ANOTHER FUCKING JOB AND QUIT WASTING VERIZON’S TIME! THERE IS CERTAINLY SOMEONE ELSE OUT THERE WHO WOULD DO YOUR JOB AND BE GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY!

Thank you.

2

ignatiusjreilly,

Do you work in Corporate World? Compensation still does not flow in a logical fashion to the laborers of the United States.

3

Well, it’s true they have some grievances, but at least they fucking get paid for their overtime! I am forced to work as much as 60-70 hours a week, and whether I get overtime pay or not is “open to debate”, because I am “exempt”. For those of you who don’t know what this means, it roughly means “exempt from being paid for all your work done”.

And no, I’m not really griping that much about my job, so don’t tell me to “get another one”. Besides, there are very few consulting engineering jobs out there that are non-exempt.

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ignatiusjreilly *
…
I say this because on NPR this morning they played a radio commercial that’s being played in Washington by the Verizon union. It included gems such as:

“Verizon forces us to work overtime every day. I need more personal time.”

and

“I have to work overtime every week. I would rather spend that time with my baby.”
All that I have to say to that is, IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT GET ANOTHER FUCKING JOB AND QUIT WASTING VERIZON’S TIME! THERE IS CERTAINLY SOMEONE ELSE OUT THERE WHO WOULD DO YOUR JOB AND BE GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY!

…um,
why should people be forced to “choose” to work in excess of the 40 hrs. a week (for which they were hired) or get SHITCANNED?

just a thought, but why the FUCK shouldn’t the onus be upon the employer to HIRE ANOTHER FUCKING WORKER?
is that so GAWDDAMN HARD?
just look what the fuck happens when Corps. try to fuck the worker out of a dollar to save a dime, you have scabs making SHIT tires that FUCKING KILL PEOPLE! now how much will that cost 'em? well, one hell of a lot more than it would have cost to deal equitably with their labor force in the fist place.
For now this is not an industry that can relocate to SE Asia in order to max out the shareholder return and CEO compensation.

5

I can tell you what would happen: The corporations would start sucking your fucking blood while paying you jack-shit.

Over the years, the unions have benefited us all, blue and white collar alike. While it is true there has been a lot of corruption, and today the unions are a business themselves, they still stand between the working slob and managment, seeing that we get something aproximating a fair shake. And non-union workers benefit from their efforts as well.

They go, we lose.

6

In high school I worked as a grocery clerk for one of the largest chains in North America. I needed no previous training and the level of responsibility was low. I worked within a union here.

I have been a Rehabilitation Worker for the past five years, the level of responsibility and skills required to do my job would be rated as very high. Mistakes could cost people their lives. We have no union.

I made more as a grocery clerk.

We have been through one proposed union where I am now, it did not get established but the response from my employers was to increase wages. Without a union we are responsible to take steps to have our own working situation improved and we are presently trying to achieve parity with our government counterparts. This should be achieved without the formation of a union. If not, I see myself working in a union again in the not too far off future. I could never see myself going on strike as it would have an extrme impact on the clients I work with.

7

Unions still serve a needed function. Don’t you think large corporations have enough power as it is without turning their skilled workforce into little more than slaves? I have several friends who work for Bell Atlantic/Verizon. Union strikes are not achieved without personal sacrifices by individuals. The people in this strike did not recieve any compensation for two weeks, then they only recieved 250 dollars a week. Don’t know about you but a lot of families live from paycheck to paycheck and this must have been a hardship on a lot of them. This strike wasn’t even about more money. It was over better working conditions. People should not be forced to work excessive amounts of overtime. If there is such a need then expand your workforce. But companies don’t want to do that because it’s cheaper to work your exsisting employees to death rather than hire more and have to give out more paychecks and benefits. Bell Atlantic/Verizon was also not living up to a previous union agreement where they were required to “promote from within” at a ratio of 70 to 30%. Right before the strike was called the company did quite a bit of hiring. Not just entry level jobs and managment trainee positions, but jobs that would normally go to workers who had hired on two, three, and four years ago. Workers who through their previous agreement would have the reasonable anticipation of being able to advance. A friend of mine was one of these. She took the test for the next level and passed. Expected that she might eventually recieve a promotion but people where hired off the street to fill several of these positions. Positions that normally would have gone “in house”.

Sorry buddy you’re just full of shit. People who dedicate their lives and livelyhood to some of these companies should have the reasonable expectation of being treated with a little bit of respect. We aren’t talking about slackers here, Bell Atlantic never put up with slackers that’s why they have a year long probationary program and lots of rules for their employees. We’re talking about hard working, dedicated people who appreciate their jobs but also have the right to demand a little respect.

Needs2know

8

Ignatius, I’m surprised you didn’t mention the best part of those ads- where the lady says “it’s gotten so bad, my manager follows me into the bathroom.” I’m not sure how they want me to interpret this, but I find it funny.

9

What I think our friend Ignatiusjreilly is forgetting is the fact that non-union Verizon employees have to pay for their own goddamn health insurance. Funny, union employees don’t. Yeah, I guess unions are all bullshit, just like he says.

MR

10

FWIW, ignatiusjreilly, i wholeheartedly agree with you. i’ve seen more bad come from unions than good. some examples: a relative who worked in a quarrey has been on paid leave for 30 years. back injury. he’s in his 70s. and the company can’t force him to quit.
a friend’s father was filing a grievance with the union because the person that worked the shift before him stayed later to clean up after a project. the statement stated that since he worked overtime into my friend’s father’s shift, my friend’s father should get the other guy’s overtime pay. and he cited bylaws.
several years ago, my mother’s union was about to strike. she was part of the teamsters. but wait…there’s no money in the accounts because all the money went to pay a sister’s unions paychecks when they went on strike!

the way i see it, you’ll get what you’re worth. if you can prove it to your supervisor/boss, they’ll pay you for your skill/knowledge. if not, then it’s probably UNSKILLED labor, meaning just about any dumbfuck off the street can do it. and if they want to do it for less, then let the company hire 'em. it’s capitalism. if you think you shouldn’t lose your job, PROVE IT. learn a skill. you can’t tell me forklift drivers are work 20 + bucks an hour. man, it’s gotta be hard to sit on your ass all day and put buttons, and mentally size matters up so loads don’t go tumbling over. ohh…watch out for the lights!

2 grocery stores back home. one’s union, one’s ‘employee owned’. guess which one is cheaper, nicer, and more friendly? not so fast, union employee.

if you don’t like work environment, like mentioned above, threaten to leave. try to get more compensation. but don’t be pissed when your boss tells you that someone with more experience will do it for less than you. that’s what happens in business.
did anyone else enjoy hearing about that striking verizon worker who, instead of cutting phone cables on a pole, cut a power cable instead? ahhh…fitting justice.

11

Where on earth do dockworkers make $20 an hour? I’m an office worker for the largest trucking company in the country. Our (Teamster) dockworkers (who are also city drivers, BTW, and whose tractors have NO air conditioning, offering them zero protection from the brutal Lousiana heat), make $16 an hour. Those who have been there for many years all make $18 an hour. Like I said, they also drive trucks in addition to the dockwork. If you can find them a dock-only job for $20 an hour, I’m sure they’d like to hear about it.

I don’t work for the union. I’m lucky to get the $10 an hour that I get. I get NO insurance, NO sick days, NO vacation, NO workman’s comp if I get hurt, and I’m still working through a temp agency after 2 years and three months of full time employment. If it weren’t for the union, the drivers would be treated the same way. Corporations will fuck you every which way they can if they think they can get away with it.

So is $18 an hour a fair wage for an experienced city driver/dockworker? I think it is. About a year ago, the city of Dallas commissioned a study which concluded that a fair minimum wage would be 3 times the rent for the cheapest apartment in the city. That would mean the minimum wage should be raised to over $13 an hour! $5 an hour more than that seems perfectly reasonable for a semi-skilled laborer who sweats his ass off all day and comes home coated in the carbon black that may eventually give him cancer …

These guys work harder than you think.

12

**

Let’s see two personall incidents mean that unions have outlived their time, versus the fact that in states with strong unionization everyone (union and nonunion) gets paid more. Countless other improvements in the quality of life that wouldn’t happen without unions and so on. Of course! Why couldn’t I see it before, your sister’s example proves that unions are bad.

**
Excellent. So we’ll fire the CEO of verizon and make it “employee owned”. In fact we’ll do that with all of the companies in the US. That should make everything cheaper, nicer, and more friendly.

** Well considering that our government makes all sorts of noises about cheap foreign imports undercutting american products, why shouldn’t workers be able to complain about beign undercut.

13

Well, I don’t have a problem with unions in general (although their rhetoric gets a little tiring sometimes, I believe they do indeed serve a useful and important purpose in some fields).

However, I hate our local grad student instructor union. You should hear THEIR rherotic–you’d think university oppression and abuse was on the level of a turkish prison. It would be laughable if it weren’t for the fact that it’s a closed shop and I had to pay dues. And I want to vomit when they do things like refuse to hand in student grades. That’s right, punish the students, who have NOTHING to do with your contract.

My problem with grad unions is that these people are in a short-term situation. Academic life awaits you, and for all its problems and frustrations, it is the life of a cultural elite–at least for most of the grads of this university. You will have work freedoms. You will set much of your schedule. You will have autonomy. You will have summers free to pursue other things. And yes, you will be paid a decent living wage. And for the record, while I know this isn’t true at many universities, at this one support to gradate student instructors is relatively generous. No one is living in the bus station due to the stipend.

So to adopt this cloak of the downtrodden doomed political and economic refugee while you try to finish your PhD? I’m not buying it, and I think you’re contributing to compassion fatigue. That’s a crime in itself (well, it will be when I start writing the laws).

I am sick of arguments like “You have to pay us enough to live well.” Oh really? Even though you only have a 40% appointment, you’re getting full tuition paid, and they’re paying for good health benefits on you too? Have you tried that at McDonalds, going in there, only working half-time (or less) but insisting they pay you several thousand dollars per month because that’s what it takes to live well here? No. And same with grad school. Reality is, if you’re going to take a .25 or .40 appointment as a student instructor, you’ll need to have additional alternative funding arranged. I’m sorry, it’s not free. Yes, I know loans suck, would you like to see my school loan balance? It was a decision I made to take on when I decided to pursue a graduate degree. Getting a PhD is not a right, it’s a choice, and it does have some real and opportunity costs.

Grow up, suck it up, finish grading those essays, write your fricking thesis, and get on with life. And stop making me pay dues to your stupid, whining self-righteous organization.

14

The reason no one sees the abuses of workers that brought the unions into being is because the unions are still here. The corporate world cares only for the bottom line, they could care less about you, me or anyone else. The corporate world uses child labor in unsafe conditions and pays them next to nothing.

15

ubermensch:

oldscratch, in response:
Excellent. So we’ll fire the CEO of verizon and make it “employee owned”. In fact we’ll do that with all of the companies in the US. That should make everything cheaper, nicer, and more friendly.
[/quote]

Oh, my yes. By all means! After all, just look at what ‘employee ownership’ has done for United Airlines. Again, ubermensch, anecdotes don’t accomplish a damned thing, except demonstrate that you have made observations about what goes on around you. So, do you have any real evidence that unions are outdated? And by “real evidence” I don’t mean “more instances that you pull out of your ass”.

Waste
Flick Lives!

16

Start?

17

All I can say is that I wish to GOD that Kmart was unionized, those blood sucking bastards…

18

no, i don’t have any ‘real evidence’ that unions are outdated. that’s like saying, “do you have any real evidence that god exists?” all i can state comes from my personal experience. i’ve not done studies of the impact of unions on the american workforce. none. i don’t know the workings of every union chapter. i don’t know every union worker. all i know is my personal experience. and i can sum it up as: “unions are no longer needed, in my experience” everytime a family member has gotten a job where there was a union, they were FORCED in it. everytime a union has come into a workplace and the rest of the workers wanted it, my family was FORCED to become part of the union. unions are little kids. when they don’t get their way, the throw a tantrum and piss and moan, yet they are (more than likely) are making a good wage for what they do. every place I’VE worked, if you did well, you had ample opportunity to get promoted. and if/when you did, you got good benefits. and these places were non-unionized. businesses don’t like to get rid of good workers. it follows that if you are a good worker, you won’t get fired.
i like big business. i like wal-mart. if i can get a nice t shirt, or a book, or a quart of oil for cheaper than anywhere else, i’ll shop there. i don’t care if it was made by kids. hell, i don’t care if it was made FROM kids. i also shop at small businesses, like cd stores, where i can get an obscure cd, or a bootleg. but damned if i’m going to pay $17.98 for a fucking billboard top 200 cd. i’m going to march right down to best buy, plunk down $9.98 for the same cd. granted this has nothing to do with unions, but i like it when the union’s dues aren’t incorporated into something’s price.
if you don’t like to work overtime, go on welfare. this is your job. you exchange your work for pay. i applaud you for trying to get the most out of your blood sweat and tears, but i’d prefer not to strongarm my employer by withholding my work, or by pussy acts of terrorism (cutting phone cables, etc). ask for it. and if you don’t get what you want, guess what? you’re free to look elsewhere for employment. surely your work is good enough that some other employer could use you, right?

19

About half way through the OP my brain kicked back into gear and started reading “union” as “union”, and not “Onion”. Just couldn’t figure out what the poster had against an unsuspecting vegetable…

20

This about sums of the intellegence and level of arguments of those against unions. Thanks for confirming my every fear about you.