Full Faith and Credit re: expungement

First, I will say that this is a hypothetical and nobody is my lawyer, etc.

Let’s say that a person had his criminal arrest record expunged under West Virginia Law 61-11-25 which concludes with this:

Boldings mine.

If the state of Florida (or any other state) were to say that this person MUST disclose any expungements or arrests which have been expunged, would such a policy not violate the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution since they don’t give credence to this order issued by a competent court of jurisdiction from a sovereign sister state?

Again, I hope this question passes muster on the board since it doesn’t pertain to anything having to do with me or anyone else I know.

It’s fine.

No.

Hoffman v. State, 922 S.W.2d 663 (Tex. Ct. App. 1996).

Contrariwise, a few courts have recognized that they can expunge sister state convictions. See Barker v. State, 62 Ohio St. 2d 35; 402 N.E.2d 550 (1980).

This reasoning is typical of the courts cited in my previous post:

State v. Edmondson, 112 N.M. 654, 818 P.2d 855, 858-59 (N.M. App.), cert. quashed, 112 N.M. 641, 818 P.2d 419 (N.M. 1991).

Interesting - I didn’t know that. I disagree with the holding, though. This is one nation. An expungement or pardon in one state should be an expungement or pardon for all. If the state in which the offense was committed is willing to let bygones be bygones, why shouldn’t the other 49?

So how do other states find out if your record has been expunged in another state? I thought the whole point of expungment was that your record was sealed and that it could not be accessed without your consent. I ask because I have a friend who commited a drug felony back in the eighties, got his record expunged and is now an big gun collector who hasn’t had any problems getting guns from dealers in other states.

In some of the cases, it isn’t explained. In others, like Delehant, the person discloses the information on an application. Many of the others involved pardons, restoration of civil rights, or regimes under which completion of probation requires dismissal of the case, all of which leave an obvious paper trail.

I was actually more surprised by the line of cases that permits one state to expunge a conviction from another. Of course, if sister states were required to recognize expungements (or expunctions) the combination of these two doctrines would offer all sorts of opportunities. For example, you could get convicted of a non-expungeable crime in Michigan, move to Ohio and get it expunged, and then return to Michigan, where you could demand recognition of the sister state expungement of your home state conviction. :smiley: Of course, the doctrines are two sides of the same coin, so changing one would likely change the other one, but I bet it’d take a while for all of that to get worked out.

Thanks GFactor.

I am still left scratching my head. Full Faith and Credit isn’t for concealed carry licenses, check. Not for gay marriage. Check. Not for driver’s licenses. Check. Not for a judicial act of expungement. Check.

So, what part of a state’s judicial proceedings ARE held to be binding on another state?

I mean

I can’t think of a more straightforward example of a “judicial proceeding” than an expungement hearing/order.

In fact, (not that I would ever do it) but I feel that if the state of Florida were to ask a person “Have you ever had an arrest record expunged in another state?” that he should be able to legally answer “No” because he has a Court Order from a sovereign state saying that he does not have to “disclose the fact” and it is judicially deemed to “never have occurred”.

I’m sure that Florida would disagree, though.

It depends on how the record is catorgorized. I worked for a temp agency and they had me doing clerical work at a bail bond company so I was able to access a service to check records for criminals.

It’s pretty easy to spot a pattern. Sometimes the record will say sealed. Other times previous records will say something like “pardon applied.” Then the record was screwed up and the attorney did the paperwork over so nothing shows, but didn’t get that first screwed up record fixed.

Some states (but not all) do allow you to simply ask “Have you ever been arrested for a felony.” Now this is “iffy” ground in the OP case as his quote read " any matter relating"

The thing with pardons and expunged or sealed records is they create gaps in paperwork that are obvious, IF you’re looking. For most jobs a simple (and cheap - about $29.00) search is all they do and nothing shows. But you can dig deep into court records, but that costs. Or even better, go to the court and get the actual records, where you often find much more info out.

As I said the thing is paperwork procedes in a usual order and a seal or expunge or pardon, disrupts that fairly obvious. So you will not know what happened, but you know something did, the you can ask that person.

As a person who’s worked in H/R laws are nice, but they are very easily gotten around,

This raises an interesting point. Can a state refuse to recognize an acquittal by another state?

In his recent staff article, Bricker points out that some pre-Civil War courts in Northern states did not enforce the federal Fugitive Slave Act by jury nullification. And after the war, courts in some Southern states used jury nullification to acquit white defendants accused of crimes against black people.

Could a state have refused to recognize these acquittals? For example, could Alabama in 1855 have enacted a law which prohibited anyone who had ever been accused of illegally harboring a slave in any state from voting or holding public office in Alabama - even if they had subsequently been acquitted of the crime? Could Oregon have enacted the same law about people accused but aquitted of lynching in 1955?

I think the language you quoted suggests they probably could, at least if they did their own factfinding. It’s actually an easier case than you might expect because of a procedural issue. Challenges to the right to office are usually done through a writ called quo warranto.

Stephen Deguzis et al. v. Dana N. Jandreau, 27 Conn. App. 421; 606 A.2d 52; 1992 Conn. App. LEXIS 172 (1992) (Emphasis added.)

So not only is the burden different from a criminal trial, but the burden is often on the defendant.

What if, for example, the statute simply says, “no office shall be held by anyone who has illegally harbored a slave”? Joe Abolitionist is elected to office, and *quo warranto *proceedings are initiated. Can an Alabama court determine that he did, in fact, harbor a slave–even though he was acquitted of criminal charges? Sure. In fact, the acquittal isn’t even relevant, and definitely has no preclusive effect because of the differeng burdens of proof. E.g., State Farm v. Carter, 154 Md. App. 400; 840 A.2d 161; 2003 Md. App. LEXIS 187 (2003) (reviewing law nationwide).

I agree with Gfactor. States historically had broad latitude in regulating the ballot and officeholding eligibility. In the Jim Crow era several Southern states restricted the ballot to those whose grandfathers had been entitled to vote, IIRC, disenfranchising the great majority of blacks whose grandfathers had been enslaved. Those laws stood for far too many decades - along with literacy tests and the poll tax - despite the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments.

In theory? Certainly not; it would be a clear violation of the 14th Amendment. I see Gfactor suggests that the other state could, but it would have to hold a trial first, and I think you’re asking if it could be done administratively.

In practice? Sure.

I was also ignoring any federal or state constitutional problems with the law other than the possible full faith and credit issue. We could remove some of the complications if we modernized the statute: “no person shall hold office if he has committed fraud in the process of originating or applying for a loan.”

Two scenarios:

  1. Bob the Builder is elected, but was charged with, and acquitted (based on nullification) of, mortgage fraud based on his conduct as a mortgage broker. Joe the Plumber files a quo warranto action seeking his removal from office. He asserts the acquittal as proof that he didnt’ do it. He loses.

  2. Bob the Builder seeks inclusion on the ballot, but his application is denied based on the fraud charge. He follows the state administrative procedures to appeal the denial, as evidence that he didn’t commit fraud. He loses all adminstrative appeals, and the state courts affirm the administrative decisions.

In either case, I don’t think FF&C saves him, under the current caselaw.

All that said, I can see problems with a law like Little Nemo proposed, which hinges entitlement to office on merely being accused of a crime. I suspect courts would strike a statute like that down on other grounds. And similarly, if in scenario 2 above, he was denied ballot access and the sole basis for concluding that he did the crime was that he’d been charged with doing it, I suspect courts would find the decision arbitrary and capricious and overturn it.

In either scenario, we’d have to assume that the facts of the case pretty much establish beyond a reasonable doubt that he did do it, yes?

As I pointed out above, in the quo warranto case he’d have the burden of proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he was qualified for office, which means he’d have to prove that he didn’t do it. These aren’t criminal cases, and the burden of proof is less than in a criminal case.

Does the acquittal not constitute a preponderance of the evidence by itself, even if it’s bogus?

No. And in many jurisidictions it probably wouldn’t even be admissible.

State Farm v. Carter, 154 Md. App. 400; 840 A.2d 161; 2003 Md. App. LEXIS 187 (2003).