No, the question was about functioning alcoholics.
Well what is a functioning alcoholic, then?
Edit: The OP defined it as “As in: doesn’t affect work performance, doesn’t affect relationships/societal interactions. Just drinks a lot more than most people.”
My friend is very functional “weekend” alcoholic. Only drinks on Fridays and Saturdays and uses Sunday to sober up. Of course he also drinks on holidays. The problem is he is just “not there when he’s drunk.” His personality just fades away. I meet him now during the week when I can talk to the real him. He is dying slowly. His digestive tract is messed up and his liver is getting bad. There is nothing wrong with being a functional drunk, if you are the drunk. But it hard on the people around you.
I can define the tooth fairy for the purposes of discussion, too. But the problem with saying anything sensible about it is that it does not exist.
I am friends with a couple who are wine aficionados, and they also collect vodkas. Drinking is also part of some of their outings with friends, although their social outings do not always involve drinking. I don’t think they drink every day, but they do drink on most days, and they drink enough to get buzzed but not drunk - about half a bottle of wine each. I’m not sure if it’s accurate to call them “functioning alcoholics,” as they have quite successful careers and many loving relationships, but alcohol is an ever-present part of their lives. Maybe this is the kind of person MeanOldLady is asking about? Would you consider a person like this to be a functioning alcoholic?
For two reasons. I am a registered psychiatric nurse and spent years working with “substance abuse” clients and I think I know just how they operate. Because I also used to drink a bottle of bourbon every night from 8:30 or so before I went to bed. Now I drink 4 beers a week. I can tell the difference.
There is no such thing as a frequent, heavy drinker who is otherwise functional? Bullshit, utter and total. I suppose this conversation goes nowhere until we establish the existence of functioning alcoholics. You say that don’t exist. I say they do.
Every time someone brings up drinking on these forums, invariably the droves of dopers who have been beaten or emotionally scarred by their alcoholic fathers and cousins come out to tell us that drinking is bad. At least this thread a bit more reasonable, and is asking about heavy drinkers only.
No the problem is that the AA fans, the “alcoholism is a disease” brigade discount people like me who are willing to admit that our drinking is bad behaviour. They just say we aren’t alcoholics because blah blah blah.
I functioned perfectly well knocking off a bottle of bourbon every night. Except that I didn’t.
I was killing myself but no-one knew it. I was still the guru at work.
Right. Alcohol is ever-present in a lot of people’s lives who function well within society. Are people not alcoholics unless they’re drinking Mad Dogg from a bottle shrouded in a paper bag in an alley? There are plenty of people who have healthy relationships with their friends and family, have stable careers and nice places to live who drink far more than the average person. This business about the inability to a heavy drinker, and a well-adjusted, functional person baffles me. I know, I know, your dad was an alcoholic and he was abusive and subject to mood swings, so everyone else is too. I get it.
Edit: One more thing. No one (I’m not, anyway) pretending cirrhosis isn’t real, but if you’re not concerned about your health, and live an otherwise normal, healthy life, what’s the hold up? I wouldn’t pester anybody about that more than I would their obesity or their smoking.
Okay, I lied. Two more things. Don’t ask, how big was this “bottle?”
Alcoholism has a definition; by definition, it isn’t something without effect on work, relationships, etc.
A functional alcoholic is one who gets by. They function despite the alcoholism, to greater or lesser degrees.
My father was a functional alcoholic. His drinking affected all aspects of his life, but he wasn’t broke and wasn’t getting arrested and didn’t lose his job or family or friends or liver because of it.
The OP’s definition isn’t possible, since it defies the meaning of the word “alcoholic.”
Meant to put in the definition of alcoholic: “Alcoholism is drinking alcoholic beverages at a level that interferes with physical health, mental health, and social, family, or job responsibilities.” From the US National Library of Medicine
I didn’t say that. Although the working definition of alcoholism is not completely straightforward, it means something very different than “frequent and heavy drinker”. Frequency and quantity do not imply dependence and interference with your health and life.
And sure enough, every time someone brings up some contentious personal behavior issue on these forums, there are the self-proclaimed defenders of various lifestyles from alcoholism to polyamory with their pat little remarks and their sophomoric injunctions to keep doing whatever as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. This would be more convincing if they, as a rule, were less superficial.
This is exactly how I was, except I started drinking beer at 7:00 and would be down for the count around midnight. I was never late for work, and had no problem making it through the day - knowing, that is, that 7:00 PM was coming.
I was the general manager of a restaurant, though; anything that happened there was my responsibility, 24 hours a day. There were many times the phone rang at night, but if it was later than 9:30 or 10:00 (basically if I thought I couldn’t speak without slurring my speech) I just wouldn’t answer. There were several occasions where my boss, the owner of the company, had to go to my store to deal with some crisis late at night because I couldn’t be reached. But yeah, I was doing a great job! I was perfectly “functional”. :rolleyes:
Seriously, I meant that they share a regular-sized bottle of wine (i.e., the most common size of wine bottle at an American wine store) with dinner almost every night.
Right, the OP is mixing up two separate things. Heavy drinking and alcoholism. The former could be done without affecting your life; the latter by definition can’t.
I think she was asking don’t ask, the poster. I got confused, too.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. And maybe I haven’t seen the threads that you’re referring to. In general, one of the things that I like about this place is that people are generally willing to explain their viewpoint in more depth when asked about it.
A fifth I think 700mls. 22 standard drinks.
Okay, look, if you want to say the term “functional alcoholism” is an oxymoron, have at it. Here’s where I’m getting at: If the question is “What’s wrong with doing something that negatively affects your ability to function in a healthy manner within society, if it doesn’t negatively affect your ability to function in a healthy way within society?” then the question makes no sense. I believe the OP is trying to ask “What is wrong with doing something that *can *negatively affect your life, but doesn’t?” The answer to can be whatever it is people think, which is why I presume this thread was opened(?).
And yes, I was asking don’t ask about the size of the bottle. I think of a standard liquor bottle as 750mL or 1L. I want to know if this bottle is that size, or if she’s talking about a flask bottle.
My grandparents were functional alcoholics. I literally never saw them without a drink. My grandpa would filll those plastic vodka bottles with iced tea and vodka, and he would just suck them down all day. He’d have his coffee first thing in the morning (decaf, strangely enough) and then starting around 10 until he finally went to bed (usually around 10:30), he would be drinking vodka and iced tea. My grandmother drank whiskey and water all day. She had her plastic cup on hand without break. The only time my grandfather didn’t drink was when he had to “drive into the city.” Which was about 40 miles away, and they only did that once a month when they needed supplies.
While they were drinking, they owned and operated a very, very successful business. They worked hard to build up this business and their name, and in all my life, I don’t remember them having a bad year. They built horse trailers, and it was just the two of them. Yes, they managed to build huge horse trailers (often big enough for 4 or 5 horses with a tack room and a living compartment) while basically drunk 24/7. Now, if that’s not a sign of a functional alcoholic, I don’t know what is. And they never injured themselves, never made a bad product. They also never, ever admitted they had a drinking problem. I remember when grandma was explaining why she didn’t like her MIL she said, “Verda thinks we have a drinking problem because we like a few drinks. Can you believe it?”
But they were (and still are) wretched people. Codependent, manipulative, passive-aggressive, distant, selfish, selfish people. Now my grandma (who isn’t even 70 yet) has Alzheimers (still drinks though AND carries a sidearm), and my grandfather has turned into somebody so unbelievably unpleasant I literally can’t stand to be in the same room with him. They closed down shop and moved even further out to the country, where they have no neighbors and the nearest hospital is 50 miles away. They are well-stocked though. Go to their pantry and it’s floor to ceiling with booze. They just keep drinking and driving each other mad up there, and one day, they’re going to drink themselves to death. Probably it’ll be one day soon. Would they be demented and isolated and cruel without the booze? I don’t know. I never knew them sober, not for a single day of my life. Of course, basically everybody on that side of the family is a functional alcoholic, so I don’t really know any of them. One time, I was visiting with my uncle when he was stone-cold sober, and was shocked to discover that he’s really a pleasant, interesting, funny person (this was last summer, so it only took 26 years to get to meet my real uncle. I’m sure when I see him again, he’ll be a surly, rude, conspiracy nut armed to his teeth and prepared to go to war against the liberals, as per usual).
My father was a functioning alcoholic.