Right. I was sitting in a pub a couple of days ago with a freind of mine (for the purposes of this, known as Greg), and we were chatting away over lunch and a few drinks, when we started talking about another friend of ours (for the purposes of this, known as Stu).
Greg has known him for 6 years - I have only known him for 2 years - and Greg says Stu is an alcoholic. This is based on the fact that after work, Stu likes to go to the pub for a couple of drinks. However, he doesn’t drink every single day and it doesn’t appear to bother him if he goes without.
I’ve been for nights out with Stu when he has been trashed (everyone has been trashed) and I’ve been out with him when he’s just drank coke and had a good time.
Greg on the other hand, gets through a bottle and a half of wine most evenings, but because he is in the house and not a pub, he seems to think this is irrelevant. Personally, I think he has more of a problem than Stu does.
So, I’m interested how people define alcoholism themselves. Personally, my father is an alcoholic. Last time we were in touch, he was drinking white cider for breakfast, and also when he woke up at 3am. That, to me, is an alcoholic.
I think Stu is merely a “social drinker”, and that Greg over does it… perhaps veering towards having a problem.
SJSB there are a number of websites - include Alcoholics Anonymous, IIRC - that have questinnaires that can be consulted - if the respondant answers yes to more than X of the questions then there may be an issue worth addressing.
From what you have described, both of your friends might do with at least answering the questionnaire - for both, consumption could seem a bit much, but a huge part of it is what is going on inside their heads.
My thoughts–and this is an any/all sorta thing based on a) observation of known alcholics–have a few in the family, and listening those brave folks trying in recovery (some on the board). I have probably missed a lot, and I hope not to offend anyone.
When it impairs your life.
When the drinking has more control over you than you have over your drinking.
When you need it (not want, need)–i.e. go through withdrawl when you try to stop.
When you have physical symptoms that go away when you drink.
I think alcoholism comes in many different flavors. From the classic drunk to the sneaky drunk and all drunks in between. I have known people with their 5 year pin from AA whose story comes across as very tame when compared to others who have never considered their drinking a problem.
One of the red flags that defines alcoholism (or any addiction) is if the behavior hurts the people that love you.
Innanna’s # 2 nailed it. There are people who can drink everyday and not have a problem (IMO). There are people who can only drink once a week and they can be a mess because of it.
You can’t really measure it in consumption, it’s all about how the person relates to life with and without the drink, and also the consequences of their drinking.
One time at work, me and one of my coworkers got yelled at by our boss. My coworker turned to me and said “Man, if I didn’t have that six pack before I came into work, I wouldn’t have been able to handle that.”
It was currently about 8:00 in the morning.
To me, that’s alcoholism. When you need alcohol to function properly and do menial, everyday tasks (like make pizza), you’re an alcoholic.
When it starts to take control of your life and you just can’t get by or function without it, that’s alcoholism. At least in my book.
I’ve never met anyone that drank that actually ‘passed’ that thing. The killer are questions like, ‘Have you ever done anything that you regretted after drinking?’
Well who the hell hasn’t?
Question it and you’ll be told you’re in denial (The circular logic in this issue kills me).
My advice? Ask yourself questions outside of the AA stuff. Innanna type questions.
Ask your friends, family etc, but most important of all, ask yourself the serious questions and give yourself serious answers.
If you or your friend has a problem, AA’s has its record. It’s just that in my opinion, AA isn’t the place to start when trying to diagnose the problem. It’s a good place to end up (Relatively speaking), but maybe not to start.
I know people who have a beer after work everyday, but I wouldn’t think of them as alcoholics. They wouldn’t be upset if they skipped a day or two because they had something else to do. They’re normally drinking more for the social aspect than the drink.
There are people I know that shake badly when they haven’t had a drink for a few hours. That I consider alcoholism.
I look at a person’s attitude towards drinking. If they are planning on getting drunk (not when they sit down to have a drink, but actually plan it days in advance) then I consider that a warning sign. If most of the stories start out with, “Yeah, this one time that I was drunk…” it’s normally not a good sign.
Not exactly an indicator, but something that struck me when I heard the Chief of Staff on “West Wing” say it:
“What do you mean ‘Do I want A drink?’ How can you have just ONE drink?’ I’m an alcoholic - we can’t have just ONE drink.’”
It struck home because my ex-wife, the alcoholic, used to ask me the same question: “How can you have just ONE drink?”
Has has been pointed out, if the drinking is controlling you, rather than the other way around, you’ve got a problem. Likewise, if someone else’s drinking is controlling you, you’ve got a problem.
raises hand I refuse to make decisions drunk. I don’t deal well with changes in plans while drunk, but I make the (sober) decision not to drink under conditions where I need to be capable of making even semi important decisions. This means I drink Coke at bars a lot, but if you need to be drunk to have fun with yoru friends, its time to consider a lifestyle change.
Which brings me to the OP, I think it depends on the person. Personally, I’m a lightweight and get pretty messed up with a very low level of alcohol. (This is why I can’t make much of a distinction between “drinking” and “drunk”…If I am drinking, I am either drunk or will be there shortly. I have heard about a nice buzz that people get in between those two states, but for me that last about a minute.) If I was to start aiming for drunkeness on a regular basis, I would get worried.
I know kids who go out and drink every night (I’m a college student) but two drinks is an evening for me, so I know I can’t do that. (Nor have any desire to.) They can handle it, I can’t.
You have a drinking problem if your drinking is causing you problems, period. My drinking caused me problems, I quit 16 yers ago, alcohol still scares me!!!
“One’s too many and a thousand’s not enough.” That’s one of those things they say in AA, but it’s true for a lot of us.
I can go without drinking for weeks at a time, but if I am going to start I know I ain’t stopping until the bar closes or I run out. Sad, but true. That’s where you get into trouble.
I love[sup]1[/sup] beer, and have on occasion been called an “alcoholic.” The charge has always been levied by other beer drinkers who drink less than me. In turn, I found myself labeling friends who drink more beer than me as “alcoholic.”
So I came up with the following definition: “An alcoholic is anyone who drinks more than you do.”
Hmmmm. Sounds like you’ve had issues with this before. Care to discuss it? Care to change your answer?
Kidding. kidding.
It’s just to me, those question get out of control quickly. Explaining them and saying, ‘But…’ gets you knowhere either. Actually, if you start defending them, like the Mimosa answer above, you’ll probably end up answering even more questions designed to make you look like a chronic. That is, questions like ‘Oh, I see. So Mimosa doesn’t count, ehh? You know the alcohol content in one…’. Or, ‘How many others times have you drank and not thought about it?’ Or even, ‘Why are you so defensive about these questions. Are you afraid to admit you have a problem?’
I’m sorry, but it seems to me those questions, and any of the follow-ups, are designed more to break your will and have you listen to their speil than actually diagnose the main problem.
But hey, this is just my opinion, as I don’t want to give the impression I think AA or any of its clones are bad news outright.
My mother was an alcoholic, for at least ten years before she passed away mainly because of it. She was very sneaky or quiet about drinking…she didn’t have usual symptoms. She usually just kept to herself a lot when she was drinking. It’s hard for us to tell exactly how severe an alcoholic she was so furtive about it. It seems she was able to function quite well most of the time.
Based on what i have seen and heard, I would define Alcoholism as an over-dependance on the substance. Someone shouldn’t need to drink to function well. Can the person function well and deal with life without the aid of drugs or alcohol? That to me seems one of the main questions.
I consider my soon-to-be Mother in Law to be an alcoholic.
I’ve NEVER been in a social situation with her when she hasn’t had at least 3 drinks. Ever. But she doesn’t get drunk.
Two examples of her drinking:
#1: After her son and I moved out of her duplex, the three of us went out to dinner. She wasn’t eating, since she was going out with a friend after we hung out. After 3 drinks, the bartender cut her off. When her friend arrived, she suggested that they go somewhere else for dinner so she could have more to drink. She lived an hour away, and was driving.
#2: We all went to a comedy club (Cody, his mom, her bf, and me). She had so many drinks (more than 8, I think) that her 19-y/o son had to drive her home.
I consider her to be dependant on alcohol in social situations. It’d be one thing if she was out with friends and they were all having a good time. But everytime I’ve been out with her, she loads up on the alcohol. She’s beyond Social Drinking, since she’s always been the only one drinking when I’ve been with her, heh.
But it hasn’t caused her any real problems. So, does it count as alcoholism? I think it does, since she seems to be so dependant on it.
The amusing thing is, that she almost kicked Cody out of her house when she found out he smoked. But when her other son (who goes to college at Texas A&M) turned 21, she gave him a big bottle of liquor. Interesting.
When, even though experience has shown you time and time again that your drinking leads - directly or indirectly - to negative, even destructive, consequences and repercussions, you repeat the same drinking behavior over and over again, expecting different results "this time."