I haven’t seen the thread in question, but I’ll have to go over and check it out.
One thing that pisses me off is when people claim “God hates gays”. Well, that’s funny. I’m bisexual and I can feel that God loves me - my faith is as strong as theirs. But since these people are so quite obviously more of God’s chosen ones than I am, surely they MUST be right. Surely the fact that I’ve been attracted to and had relations with women just cancels out the fact that I feel a strong pull to God. Never mind that I don’t invent those feelings - I can’t imagine that any God would give me these feelings only to say “They’re wrong, I know I gave them to you, but you’re going to hell for feeling that way.”.
I’m sorry about the assholes. The easiest thing I can say is don’t defend yourself. They aren’t worth it. I stopped defending myself to fundie morons a long time ago and I feel better for it. And I belong to a church that would ordain me as a priest regardless of my sexual orientation or gender. I’m quite happy with that.
Pornography: “Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal”
Fundie Porn: something along the lines of “religiously explicit writings or other material whose primary purpose is to cause religious arousal and fuel religious fantasies of persecution and the eventual torment of the evil ones”.
It seems that the article only has one side of the story, and an outlandish one at that. I think this story should get more interesting when both sides are told.
“Porn” is “material meant to satisfy fantasies, without regard for subtlety or artistic merit.”
Thus “fundie porn” satisfies fantasies of persecution (the “deny Christ or die” event described in the article,) of being smarter than everyone else (creation science,) or vengeance (“your fancy arguments won’t do you any good in hell!”) etc.
“Porn” is “material meant to satisfy fantasies, without regard for subtlety or artistic merit.”
Thus “fundie porn” satisfies fantasies of persecution (the “deny Christ or die” event described in the article,) of being smarter than everyone else (creation science,) or vengeance (“your fancy arguments won’t do you any good in hell!”) etc.
If you believe in God wholeheartedly that should be easy. If you doubt even a little it gets a lot tricker. Let’s say I’m on my knees with a gun to the back of my head. The holder of said gun says “One chance to deny Christ or you will be killed.” Here’s my train of thought:
Okay, Wolfian. Die nobly. Die a matyr. Stand up for your beliefs. I believe in Jesus Christ. I’m going to have everlasting life… I think. Wait, what if I’m wrong. What if I’m at the wrong religion? The only reason I’m a Bapist is because my mother is one and I went to her church. Okay, if Jesus is God then this won’t be too bad. If not then I’m either going to hell or…nothing. What if this is it? God, I’m only 20. I expected 60 more years at least. Maybe I can take those remaining years and figure some shit out. “I don’t believe in Jesus.”
More than likely it would look like this:
HOLY CRAP! GUN! “I don’t believe in Jesus.”
What they did is definately wrong. Still I can see where they might have gotten the idea of testing true faith. Then again it probably showed that people were not willing to lose face in front of others even with death on the line better than showing faith.
I don’t think the event was staged to demonstrate faith. I believe they were trying to give a realistic feeling of persecution. Even if someone fully understood the experience they were going to be involved in, one could still be caught off-guard by the intensity of the experience. Since many others went through the staged ordeal, one might assume that certain cautionary measures were extended.
I’m not saying it was a great idea, but I can understand people trying to explore new feelings and emotions by putting themselves into a situation that would otherwise not be part of their daily experiences.
My reaction afterwards would likely be casting the religion as far away from me as I could “kick/punch” it. I’d utterly reject a religion that would let it’s followers test it’s adherants so cruelly. :mad:
I did end up refusing to practice Christianity because I saw a great deal of corruption and ugliness coming from the Preist/congregation I had grown up in. A good deal of it was aimed at me and my family too. The Preist did nothing to stop it, he seemed to encourage it. (This is the same person who struck bedridden/housebound members off the Church Roles.) I was a Lector/Acolyte/Choir member who also helped the Altar Guild in my church, but a corrupt Preist (Episcopalian) was too much for me. I don’t deny the existence of God, or Jesus Christ, but I will NEVER participate in that religion again.
After the “events” happened, I met some people who were Pagan, and asked them about their religious beliefs out of curiousity. I found that their “truths” were very similar to my own. I’d always felt that Diety was not just Male, but that there was a seperate Female aspect too, as just one example of what I mean. There are many names/aspects of Diety. The Christian/Jewish God is one aspect of Male Divinity, just as Qwan Yin is an aspect of Female Divinity.
People who do things like the subjects of the OP don’t consider that they may cause such pain, or cause the person to reject the religion entirely. They aren’t really thinking at all, it’s scary. It’s almost a type of “hazing” IMO. I guess to their minds, losing some of their number is a “needful pruning” though. rolls her eyes
My reaction afterwards would likely be casting the religion as far away from me as I could “kick/punch” it. I’d utterly reject a religion that would let it’s followers test it’s adherants so cruelly. :mad:
I did end up refusing to practice Christianity because I saw a great deal of corruption and ugliness coming from the Preist/congregation I had grown up in. A good deal of it was aimed at me and my family too. The Preist did nothing to stop it, he seemed to encourage it. (This is the same person who struck bedridden/housebound members off the Church Roles.) I was a Lector/Acolyte/Choir member who also helped the Altar Guild in my church, but a corrupt Preist (Episcopalian) was too much for me. I don’t deny the existence of God, or Jesus Christ, but I will NEVER participate in that religion again.
After the “events” happened, I met some people who were Pagan, and asked them about their religious beliefs out of curiousity. I found that their “truths” were very similar to my own. I’d always felt that Diety was not just Male, but that there was a seperate Female aspect too, as just one example of what I mean. There are many names/aspects of Diety. The Christian/Jewish God is one aspect of Male Divinity, just as Qwan Yin is an aspect of Female Divinity.
People who do things like the subjects of the OP don’t consider that they may cause such pain, or cause the person to reject the religion entirely. They aren’t really thinking at all, it’s scary. It’s almost a type of “hazing” IMO. I guess to their minds, losing some of their number is a “needful pruning” though. rolls her eyes
Gah! What is it with the boards lately? I got the “cannot find page” screen, so refreshed and checked the thread list, and saw that the post count had not increased, nor was my name listed as the most recent poster. I copied and pasted my reply and hit “submit”. My reply went through, and what should my puzzled eyes behold? That’s right, two identical posts, quite a while apart. Blush Sorry about that.
Oh FFS.
That poor woman.
If you believe you’ve been kidnapped and are about to be killed, OF COURSE you’ll be traumatised.
Someone should have thought this through.
No.
Someone should have thought.
Lame analogy, but analogy nonetheless. Has no one here gone to a haunted house at halloween time? If you have an idea what to expect, you may be scared but not traumatized. This experience that the church and youth lay put together may have been overdone a bit, but I still contend that many in attendance knew what this was going to be about and did not suffer from it. It does sound like some were ignorant as to what the experience would entail.
I think they deliberately chose NOT to tell some people, because it was a way of “testing their faith” a.k.a. hazing them.
See, afterwards the person who was not told was supposed to puff up and feel superior because they stayed steadfast to their faith under threat of death. They (the person who wasn’t told) became a martyr without actually dying. Then they can all strut around and feel superior to everyone else who “gave up” just to live, because they KNOW they have eternal life now. A somewhat educated guess on my part, I know people like this.
Yes, I have a VERY low opinion as to the people who go this far to test the faith of others, and a low opinion of those who think it’s a beneficial thing to do.
Huh? Somebody needs to do some ‘splainin’ here.
Blush Sorry about that.