I’ll bet a lot of people mistake it for a Kalashnikov. The AK-47 wasn’t invented until, uhm, 1947.
They really didn’t have a choice. They were too close once the battle started. If you remember one of the other tank commander said they should run but Pitt over ruled him saying they would only get away if the Tiger ran into a ditch.
This was at the end of the war. Lots of hungry civilians. There were plenty of willing participants.
I don’t know why you call it a dinner/rape scene. I don’t get what you are saying. The scene felt too long for me but it didn’t feel like anything other than how it was portrayed. Two young people taking comfort in the middle of horror. However it was the weakest part of the movie.
I don’t know about lame but the end battle was unrealistic. There was no reason why the Germans shouldn’t have bypassed the tank. It was not their objective. The fire from the tank was way too effective and accurate and the SS was too inept. There is no reason why they couldn’t have flanked the tank at their leisure.
Tank rounds are not tracers. But I can tell you that you can see the streak from a modern tank round especially at night.
As a former tanker I can say that despite the flaws this movie did an excellent job of portraying a tank crew. As someone who has been in a tank the interactions and actions of the crews felt very real to me.
You’re right; they had eggs. It was probably breakfast.
But seriously. Brad Pitt’s character tells New Guy that he will rape the girl if New Guy doesn’t have sex with her. The other members of the tank crew come in and have a stand off with Pitt over not being allowed to rape the girl. I don’t see how the scene is about anything OTHER than rape and dinner.
I thought that scene worked well: it was creepy as hell (was the girl really a willing participant - or, more likely, simply attempting to survive? The movie doesn’t say expressly - just because she smiles at the one guy, and goes with him into a room, obviously doesn’t mean it wasn’t coerced or that she had suddenly fallen in love with him: the alternatives were clearly going to be far, far worse).
Seems to me the whole thing was part of “Wardaddy”'s plan for making the young soldier into a willing member of his team - another step in his moral corruption on the one hand, and ‘team spirit’ on the other. A way to break the young man to his will.
Historically, women among the civilian population, faced with drunken, rampaging enemy soldiers bent on rape or worse, have in some cases chosen a “protector” among the victors who is willing to prevent them from being (more) seriously abused, in exchange basically for sex (or “true love”, take your pick): one notable example is Lady Smith (for whom the towns of “Ladysmith” were named - one in BC, one in South Africa).
Necessary part of the movie. Was it ambiguous? Was it rape or consent? Life is fleeting. “They are young and they are alive.” But maybe only alive for right now. Pretending to play house in town they just destroyed. Drunken louts ready to rape, where two years earlier they were normal men.
War really is hell, even for the victors. It dehumanizes. It can’t be said too often to an audience that goes in for a war movie. It is brutal and brutalizes. For the victors, WWII was as good a cause as it gets, but it still shut the surviving men up for the rest of their lives. This was far better than a movie that glorifies war.
No he didn’t. He never said anything about force and there was never any menace or threats or hints of it. If anything, after the initial shock and fear and before the rest of the crew shows up both girls are seen to begin to feel comfort with the situation. Of course it is just an illusion that is soon shattered. Through three years of fighting Pitt’s character knows how the situation works. Probably not the first time he has done this. I am not saying it never happened in real life but in the movie there is nothing to indicate rape from anyone.
I think you are missing the point. Pitt is a normal man. He has become brutal out of necessity. But at his core that is not what he is. Even though he loves his callously violent crew like brothers in his heart he feels closer to the gentle soul of the new guy. While others get drunk and whore around he feels the need for being domestic. There is no indication that he is going to rape anyone.
Saw this a couple of weeks back. I liked it well enough and agree with most of the comments above, especially that the dinner scene added very little if anything to the story. My slight problem with the crossroads set up was that the tank hits a mine and loses a track. They immediately jump out ready to make repairs - no-one thinks to make sure there are no more mines? ( I don’t think this has been mentioned so far).
So when Brad Pitt says, “If you don’t take her into the next room, I will,” he is indicating that he will start romancing the young girl? So when the Walking Dead guy comes into the apartment, he does NOT get upset that Brad Pitt will not allow him to rape the girl? I’m sorry, but there is no evidence to support your interpretation.
Yes that is exactly what I was saying.
Honestly, I think he was more or less joking. He saw the chemistry between the two “kids” and basically told them to get a room and get on with it. All he wanted was a bit of normality–to sit down, drink coffee, have a good meal (made for him by a good woman, as was the norm at the time). He never showed any rapeyness towards anyone–after all, he could’ve had his go at the older woman or even had a spin with the younger after the younger guy (Norman? I forget his name) was done.
In any event, there is no indication that the women knew English. The message was aimed at the young fellow, not the woman.
No, the fear generated wasn’t generated by his statement, but by the whole situation - armed enemy soldiers busting into their apartment, dragging the girl out from under her bed, and making themselves at home. The women have no idea what they intend. Are they just behaving nicely for the moment in the way that sadists and bullies do - just before they hurt their victims? Or do they just want, as you say, a bit of normalicy? They have no idea - they are totally at the mercy of these soldiers and can only hope for the best.
Then the other soldiers show up, and they are drunk and mean … it is pretty clear that all that stands in the way of rape (or worse) for these women is the first couple of soldiers, and in particular, Wardaddy (as the young guy is getting bullied by them, too).
We saw the film last weekend and enjoyed it. But I was wondering about that too. Could he have meant eight weeks since he left basic training?
That would be the only thing that makes sense. As far as I can see in WW2 the Army did not have a separate Basic and Advanced training. It was combined into one. Most Combat Arms MOS’ still do the same today. Depending on the type of training it would take longer than 8 weeks. Then add on travel time to England, France and on to Germany. During that time there would be some time in a Replacement Battalion. So yeah, 8 weeks after first putting the uniform on seems to be unrealistic.
However, in WWII they absolutely snatched up untrained personnel, gave them a quick couple of classes on a tank and made them into tankers. The production of Shermans was at a high enough rate that they were replacing tanks quicker than they could replace crews. I wish I could remember which documentary it was but I saw a crying old vet talking about training a raw platoon of tankers and finding out that by the end of the day they were all dead.
I just saw it today and I was very impressed. A top-notch war movie. There were a few cliches but they weren’t overdone and the battle scenes were great. And this is the first time I’ve ever liked Shia LaBeouf in a movie.
I don’t have any problem with the apartment scene. I think it served a useful purpose in the story. The tank crew had been serving in combat for months and they had completely adapted themselves to war. They were seeing things and doing things that they would never see or do outside of the war. They talked about the end of the war but you could sense some dread in that talk - they weren’t sure if they could really go back to being the people they had been.
Norman, by being a new soldier who hadn’t experienced combat, reminded them of what they had been and how much they had changed. The apartment scene in particular was Wardaddy trying to see if he could still function outside of the war.
The religious angle really bothered me. While pretty much the entire crew starts off with the “war is awful and what kind of heinous god would allow this” point of view, in the end they (or at least Wardaddy) seem to be converted to “IT IS A NOBLE THING TO KILL AND DIE FOR GOD DEMANDS IT”.
The thing that bothered me with the film was that Norman’s development arc pretty quickly reached its conclusion and he was all “shoot the Nazis” early on.
Plus (having been to Bovington Tank Musuem several times and seen the Tiger in action for real) I was sorry the Tiger battle concluded so quickly.
It seemed relentlessly talky in parts and only had like three action scenes, the last one of which was like the final battle in “Rambo (2008)” when Rambo takes out all the baddies with the 50-cal on the back of the truck.
But the tanks were awesome and the bass notes and screeching noises inside during the battles were mega. And the mud, endless mud everywhere.
It seems to be totally unrealistic. Until you read Ernest Kouma’s Medal of Honor citation.
The first time I saw this movie, I thought it was pure Hollywood hokum. It ain’t. The man won the Congressional Medal of Honor doing just what he does in the film.
I wonder if Normans account would be enough to get Wardaddy a MOH. Doesn’t there need to be at least two witnesses?
[quote=“terentii, post:58, topic:701924”]
The first time I saw this movie, I thought it was pure Hollywood hokum. It ain’t. The man won the Congressional Medal of Honor doing just what he does in the film.
[/QUOTE]I suggest you read Murphy’s book. I was surprised. After seeing the Hollywood movie I figured it would be a rah-rah USA USA book. It was a lot darker than I thought and a lot darker than the movie.