Gambling, baby death, and marriage in the Bible.

Great Debates
1

Hola,

I would like to know these three things,

Where does it say in the Bible that gambling is a sin? I do not see it mentioned anywhere except that the Roman soldiers rolled dice for Christ’s clothing.

Where does it say that when a baby dies that they will go to heaven? Does this mean that babies who die (or who are aborted) get a free ride into the paradise of the next life? Is not this unfair to those of us who have to live here to be tempted by all the sins of the world? If a baby dies does God say “Your soul has been exempt from the test of salvation, congratulations?”

Lastly, where does the Bible state that sex before marriage is wrong? I do not see it. If it does, then is my Chinese wife and I legally married in the eyes of God, even though it wasn’t a Christaian or even a religious ceremony?

Tell me;j

SENOR

2

Gambling- no real Bible text- the usual argument is based on moral principles that gambling is based on winning at the expense of others who are most often those least able to afford to lose & that it also encourages attitudes of getting something for nothing & depending on luck instead of trusting God & working to supply one’s needs

All babies go to Heaven-
2 Samuel 12: (a remote passage- emphasis on last verse)
18. And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?
19. But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.
20. Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.
21. Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
22. And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
23. But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

A better passage
Mark 10:
13. And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
14. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
16. And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

Finally- RE sex before marriage-
If you have a civil marital ceremony & no religious one, you are married before God & the law. If people have a religious ceremony but not a civil license, they may be married before God but probably not before the law (there may be rare cases where this is acceptable in Biblical morality). However, the Biblical norm is that a couple
becomes one flesh physically (with sex) and covenants with each other
before God & society (Genesis 2: 21-25, Exodus 22: 16-17, Deuteronomy
22: 13-29). To do otherwise is to risk Biblical “harlotry”. Btw, there are some Bible scholars that teach the sex act itself makes the partners married in a spiritual/moral sense & thus premarital sex with one partner & breaking up & having premarital sex with another partner is adultery. I think that’s stretching it but I see the point.

3

Hey FriarTed – are you posting from that laptop in the back pew?!? Where are you at 11:05 on a Sunday morning!?!

(BTW, we’re almost neighbors – I live one county away from Madison!)

A follow up on the OP question #1:

The 10th commandment, thou shall not covet, often comes into play regarding gambling. Also, the first commandment, “Thou shall have no other gods before Me” speaks to putting one’s faith in “Lady Luck” or “fate” or whatever.

4

Hmm. I searched the Bible Gateway for “gambling”, “games of chance”, and “games” and found nothing relevant. I did google for “gambling bible” and got this, and this. The arguments seem pretty weak, IMO. They pretty much concur with FriarTed. (No offense meant, F.T., re: the weak argument remark.)

5

but I went to real Church in the evening L

which county?

The Tenth Commandment is a pretty good point. also there is a passage in Isaiah which I’m having trouble finding at the moment warning those who rely on Fortune or Destiny instead of God.

OH- Isaiah 65:11-12

  1. But ye that forsake Jehovah, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for Fortune, and that fill up mingled wine unto Destiny;
  2. I will destine you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter; because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but ye did that which was evil in mine eyes, and chose that wherein I delighted not.

Btw, I’m not at all hardcore about gambling- I’ll occasionally play the lottery & I dropped a whopping TWENTY DOLLARS L when in Vegas but I’d put it in the same category as alcohol- if it interferes with you living up to your responsibilities then stay away from it. If it’s just a pleasant diversion that doesn’t interfere with normal life, it can be OK.

6

FriarTed said:

Should the same standard be held to playing the market or should we “invest our talents”?
Also from FriarTed:

How many people would that twenty dollars feed in a Third World Country?

(Just playing Devil’s advocate here…)

7

Hey FriarTed– Thanks for the Isaiah 65:11-12 reference! The NIV seems to really hit that one on the head. I breezed right over it in the NKJV.

Which county? Used to be Switzerland, now Scott. Love Madison, though! May have to have CliftyDope someday.

Great Question, Zoe. My take on the “stock market / gambling” question goes like this: If you randomly pick a stock by throwing a dart at the financial page of the newspaper, I’d call that gambling. If you research a company, their products, their practices, their potential, etc… and decide that you would benefit from being involved in what they do, that’s an investment. (YMMV.)

Seems like we need to keep in mind the Apostle Paul’s argument about “meat sacrificed to idols.” (Romans 14:14-23) If what I’m doing would cause a brother or sister to stumble, then I need to step back.

8

Which commnandment is that?

Isn’t there an incident in the OT where some guilty party is sought and the method of discovery is throwing lots, under the reasoning that god will reveal the guilty party by influencing the drawing? Would it be analogous to say that gambling is a change to let god reward/punish me, i.e. since god is omnipotent & everywhere whether I win or lose is in his hands?

Regarding the stock market: I would say, yes! there is risk, however it is not analogous to gambling in that: 1. Your assets that go into the market are (generally) productive investments, and 2. whatever you do with your money you incur risk–your goal is to minimize risk and the way to do that is to spread it around which would include market investing. Minimizing risk is the opposite of gambling, that’s why Ned Flanders was wrong about not buying house insurance.

9

What ethnicity is your other wife?

Sua