And the train kept trollin’ all night long.
Are you going to get tired of this any time soon, Sparky? I mean, I’m quite happy to keep feeding you–I’m a giver–but I have to make dinner soon. I want to toddle off confident that you’ll keep on getting your troll kibble.
ETA: It occurs to me that it’s possible–remotely, certainly, but possible–that you’re not deliberately trolling and are just this stupid. Let me know if you figure it out, willya?
.
Well, you should, because you have not added a single new or interesting thing to this thread. Every point you’ve brought up has been debated, dissected, and dismissed already. If you want to know why you’re wrong on this issue, all the information is literally right here. You genuinely expect people who have been involved in this discussion for weeks to repeat themselves solely for your benefit, just because you’re too lazy to click the back button?
You know, this sort of condescension really doesn’t work when you’re demonstrably the dumbest guy in the room.
Yeah, I know what a PR firm is. Who hired this PR firm? Which PR firm did they hire? And most importantly, why? Why would anyone spend money (PR firms don’t work for free!) to promulgate the idea that “gamer culture” is dying? What’s the profit motive here? Who stands to come out ahead by spreading this idea, and by what mechanism?
I don’t need to say that collusion hasn’t been disproven. All I need to do is point out that there is no evidence for collusion in the first place, and anyone who’s approaching this issue with any honesty at all would drop the issue.
FTR, I do not expect you to drop the issue.
This is complete bullshit. What is true is that a bunch of people, some of whom share some ideological viewpoints informed by feminism, are daring to CRITICIZE the type of games many gamers enjoy.
Freaking out about that phenomenon is in no way “a legitimate complaint”. It’s merely whiny and stupid and immature and oversensitive and insecure. People are allowed to criticize the things you enjoy, and you are free to disagree with them. But that doesn’t mean you’re entitled to threaten them, spam them, doxx them, hurl obscene abuse at them, or pretend that you’re somehow being victimized or deprived by them.
Just like feminist critics of porn haven’t taken porn away, and feminist critics of action movies haven’t taken action movies away, feminist critics of video games are not going to take video games away.
This focus on “taking our games away” is one of the reasons it’s occurred to me that the driving force behind most of Gamergate may well be teen boys. After all, grown-ass functioning adult men would not be scared about YouTube commenters “trying to take their games away”. It’s the adolescents under parental control who have genuine reason to be worried that their games might be “taken away” if their parents start hearing too many negative opinions about them.
To which I respond: tough shit, kid. Hang in there till you grow up and move out and start supporting yourself, and you can purchase and play whatever games you like. I’m certainly not going to try to prevent you, and neither is Anna Sarkeesian:
Then you don’t get to complain when people mock and insult you for not knowing basic information that has already been discussed in this thread that you voluntarily chose to participate in.
We’re not very welcoming to voluntary self-inflicted ignorance around here.
Im sure had six or seven articles appeared in the press on the same day about the benefits of Fracking, or the dangers of new green taxes you would not be nearly so casual about them. Particularly if they had used the same talking points. You would suspect the journalists they had been briefed. That the stories were agenda driven. Well, you’d probably be correct. Is it illegal? No. Unethical? Perhaps. Sloppy journalism? Yes.
No link to an article in Mother Jones? Pity.
Just going by the headlines, the idea that these articles are advocating the death of “gamer identity” is clearly unsupportable. Noting that something is dying is not the same as being glad that something is dying. Or were you under the impression that all those headlines about Ebola, quite a few of which contain scary words like “death,” are written from a pro-hemorrhagic fever POV?
Not that it actually matters, since the topic of debate you brought up wasn’t, “Do some people not like gamers?” but, “Is there some sort of journalistic conspiracy to destroy gamers?” The fact that a group of people is unpopular is not the same thing as a conspiracy to destroy that group.
Oh, sure, they have plenty of legitimate concerns. Type II diabetes, for example. Or the fact that they’re going to die alone and unloved. Those are legitimate problems. But they aren’t caused by feminists, and they aren’t going to be solved by typing “cunt” in 30 point type face.
If I had any faith this was true, I would try and I explain, because I think I know what Orr is trying to say. But I think people here don’t really care because DEATH THREATS!
Give it a shot. Left Hand isn’t the only person reading.
If we are playing games of copying & pasting the most sympathetic quotes to back up our respective side then here’s mine. All these are from female gamers who support gamergate. All were recently interviewed on HuffPo:
Georgina Young, a tentative supporter of gamergate: “I’d say the vast majority of death threats and harassment is done by one or two specific individuals and trolls on both sides. When you have such a large group of people (she cites KotakuinAction a GG subreddit that has 11, 000 subscribers alone) there is always going to be a couple of people who aren’t doing the nicest of things, you’re never going to stop that with a movement of this scale. The vast majority of GamerGaters I have spoken to are the nicest, intelligent, respectable people”
Jennie Bharaj, female gamer: “When you say GamerGate is against feminism - we’re not against the majority of feminism, we’re against the radical feminists, the social justice warriors. These women and men are essentially very negative. They want men to just disintegrate. It’s not right what they’re doing. They become professional victims, in a sense, telling us to check our privilege. There’s no opportunity for us to even discuss the issues of feminism.”
Jemma Morgan: “There are so many diverse people in the movement. There are so many political identities, we have left, we have right, different ethnicities, women, LGBTs, so many different people. To label all of us - millions of tweets - to say we are an anti-women campaign, when there are so many strong women involved. All we want to do is play games without being told we’re horrendous people, without the stigma of being called misogynists.”
Georgina Young: “It is derogatory, but I think at the same time that a lot of these people are using misogyny, as a shield.** We’re not talking about the majority of feminists that do care about these issues. What we’re talking about are people using misogyny to deflect the true issue of journalism, which is what we should be talking about.”**
What are you babbling about? The death of “gamer” as a descriptor for the video game community (and the larger culture that plays tabletop games too) has been talked about for years now. This batch of articles just so happened to coincide due to a group of jackholes who decided that harassing a pair of women under the “GamerGate” banner was a great idea.
It’s all connected, man!
If you’re going to call yourself a “gamer” and use that as an excuse to threaten to rape somebody, then an editorial saying, “Maybe we shouldn’t call ourselves ‘gamers’ anymore” is pretty damn topical. It could be that all those writers had something to say on the subject. Those articles were also published a day before the annual PAX Prime expo, which sucks up most of the gaming news cycle when it starts. So their editors probably wanted to get ahead of that. Bam! All of them are posted on the same day.
So tell me again how everybody is crooked, sparky. And then cut me a check too, because I could sure use one.
Poster A: Here’s a quote from one of the key figures in this controversy, whose motives have been central to the entire debate, explaining her position.
Poster B: Here’s some quotes from random women you’ve never heard of before.
Those are not equivalent arguments, fuzzy.
We all know what Orr is trying to say.
In other words: “The problem I’m really invested in here is that feminists aren’t being nice enough.”
No! Bad Sparky! You don’t get to play the “both sides” when the subject is death threats because no GamerGaters have received death threats.
No! Bad Sparky! We’ve already established that there is little to no corruption in the game journalism field. Until you can prove that there is, this is just a bunch of misdirection to pull people’s eyes away from the death threats.
I mean, seriously! Death threats to a no-name game developer and a critic! How are there still people who self-identify as GamerGaters.
What would your mom say about your support of GamerGate Sparky?
None of the quotes you posted do jack shit to “back up” your “side”. None of them support any of the claims you were making about feminists “trying to take games away” or promoting the “death of gamers” or being involved in any sort of journalistic misconduct.
All your quotes show is that not all of the people who feel threatened by some feminists criticizing video games are male. Well, nobody was attempting to claim otherwise.
Ah, the Pax Prime expo. That’ll be it, yes!
Im a libertarian, though not a member of any Party. We have our fair share of libertarian nutjobs. Should the movement be condomned for the actions of a few people? Of course not. Just as I would not condemn the entire feminist movement because of a few ugly outspoken females who happen to hate men.
I’ll speak real slow now…
WHO. ARE. THESE. FEMINISTS. WHO. HATE. MEN?
Name names Sparky. And explain EXACTLY what they’re doing to damage the game industry. As I’ve said before, I don’t think Sarkeesian makes her points very well in her Tropes vs Women videos. But there’s no one in the world that should say she shouldn’t be allowed to say what she wants to say. And when you add death threats on top of that, there is no defense.
And way to go by saying all feminists who hate men are “ugly” too. That proves that you’re not misinformed, you’re just an asshole.
No, the libertarian movement should be condemned for its fundamental misguided notion that markets in the real world would behave like theoretically ideal markets absent government intervention.
Similarly, the Gamergate movement as a whole should be condemned not for the minority of its supporters who are doing truly hateful and/or criminal things, but for its fundamental misguided notion that it represents any meaningful critique of gaming journalism worth wading through all the surrounding misogynistic hate to get to.
[QUOTE=Fuzzy_wuzzy]
Just as I would not condemn the entire feminist movement because of a few ugly outspoken females who happen to hate men.
[/QUOTE]
But if you happen to think that the fundamental principle of feminism that men and women deserve equal rights and respect is wrong, then you can condemn the entire feminist movement on those grounds.
You may get a fair number of people disagreeing with you, but I’ve already pointed out that you don’t have any right not to be disagreed with.
Yes, my mistake:
Yeah, missed this part. My bad.
Being reasonable and even-handed in the Pit? Now that’s grounds for outrage! 
srsly thx yaar
Oops. My bad. (Although in my defense, it’s totally possible that the gamergate trolls made the same error, seeing “Casey”.)
As for fuzzy wuzzy, he’s far too dumb for any more of my time.
We are gamers because we play games. Not because we rape people, or live in basements or wear silly hats. For feminists to try to redefine that one thing we all have in common to suit some talking point is a huge strategic misstep, IMO.