What is the origin of the way “gangstaz” hold handguns sideways? Why? Is there an advantage?
We have done this one before believe it or not. I am not sure if I can find it but I can try. There isn’t any special advantage. In fact, it is a stupid way to hold a gun. However, it caught on somehow in popular media.
Movies. It looks cool. And it really, really, screws up your accuracy. When you fire a gun, the end of it jerks upwards (well, “up” if you’re holding it right.) With practice and skill, you learn to compensate for this jerking, and it’s not hard if you’re holding it the way it’s intended. But when you hold it sideways, you’ve got to control it on a lateral (side to side) plane, and that’s much harder. Our arms and wrists just aren’t designed for it.
I’m not sure what the first movie that had guys holding their guns like this (usually two of them, and while jumping sideways in slow motion, to boot), but Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez are two directors probably most responsible for popularizing it.
IIRC, the dudes on Simon and Simon (1981-1988) were big on holding their guns sideways.
It’s supposed to be cool an’ stuff. There is no advantage whatsoever, and many disadvantages, not least being that you miss a LOT. Anyone who holds a pistol like that for use is demonstrating that they have no idea what they’re doing.
Just so’s we’re all clear, that’s a joke. It’s pretty funny, though.
I think it would be more accurate to say you learn that accuracy is determined by what happens before the “jerking” (i.e. recoil), so it should (to the extent possible) be ignored, not compensated for. It is true that a firm grip contributes to accuracy.
It seems clear that aiming a handgun properly becomes harder when it is not held upright.
If you are trained extensively in CQB with a short ,apart from the conventional firing positions you are trained over and over ad nauseam firing L&R handed ,lying on your back firing backwards over your head,rolling over your shoulders,over furniture ,how to pickup,rapid response at close quarters most everything that you can think of again and again and again till you are thinking about what your going to do tonight down the pub when youve finished for the day while your doing it out of sheer boredom.
But Im still not sure about what this sideways hold grip is ,I obviously havent watched enough cop movies.
I’m sure I’ve seen it in John Woo movies too, possibly first.
I’m pretty sure that what WhyNot is talking about here is controlling the recoil (“jerking”) after the first shot, so subsequent shots are on-target.
Certainly, the first shot is the most important, but many types of training emphasize the “double-tap,” two quick shots fired in succession, not a single shot. And in cases like that, controlling and working “with” the jerking of the firearm is an important thing. It’s very hard for me to describe in words, but from personal experience, the best I can describe it is getting into a kind of rhythm as you fire repeated rounds very quickly.
In the early half of the last century, the chinese used the “sideways” grip on the full auto version of the C96. But their variation of the grip was that they used their middle finger to pull the trigger.
That way, instead of the muzzle going up, it would sweep across a field of fire, which they found effective for some close quarters combat.
That predates Hollywood/Hong Kong action movies by quite a few decades.
The origin of the current ‘gangsta’ hold is thought to be that some stuntmen were sick of getting the brass back in their face when shooting (they couldn’t wear safety glasses or anything like that while being filmed) so they just tilted them to get the brass out of their face. It caught on.
What on earth were they shooting? I’ve fired a good variety of automatics and never had that problem.
(Of course, this was real, live cartridges, so maybe the blank ammo they use in movies has this tendency???)
No idea, that’s just what I’ve heard/read. I imagine the blank ammo had something to do with it, having a much larger load of powder might cause some problems if it’s ejecting towards you.
Yeah, that sounds reasonable.
Say I’m a panicky gang-banger firing randomly and rapidly into a crowd from a moving car. If I hold the handgun sideways, does the ‘sideways climb’ of the gun help me keep more shots in the group (lets say that I start firing at the guy my extreme right)? Holding the gun in the conventional way and squeezing off 10+ rounds rapidly seems like a recipe to put 2 shots into the crowd and 8 over their heads.
I heard because that’s how the gun was sitting when they opened the box.
You fire a gun sideways so you can proudly display the burn scar from the ejected brass going down your collar. Other than that, no benefit.
Only time you run into that is with leftys really. My beretta 92FS tended to eject upward more than right but even then it was rare for a shell casing to land inside between my arms. If anything the “gangsta” style would be more likely to eject brass back at you since most handguns eject up and to the right…
I’ve had a hot .45 ACP casing land between my safety goggles and my temple. That was an ouch. It had bounced off the separation wall of the shooting lane I was on at an indoor range. Outside, during a gunfight, not so much, I think.