Gay cakes elsewhere in the world?

[md2000]

@naita

It’s not like it happens all that often in the US, and Norway, having a fraction of the population, and a lower percentage of all kinds of religiousness hasn’t had the specific issue. But in general, although there are some exemptions from anti-discrimination laws on religious grounds (for instance churches can refuse to hire clergy who break the tenets of the faith), you can’t claim “religious freedom” to avoid doing something that can reasonably be considered part of your job.

So what we have had in Norway for the last year and a half are occasional discussion about whether or not the clergy of the Norwegian Lutheran Church (formerly, and still in most senses, the national church) can refuse to marry same sex couples.

The church leadership approved changes in practice to allow same sex marriages in the church, but the odd parish and minister are refusing, some going as far as to resign from their positions in protest. Other’s stay on, but claim a right to refuse. As far as I can tell this still hasn’t become a court issue. In general people get married in a neighbouring parish, or the service is done by a guest minister, rather than make their happy day front page news for months and months.

I don’t think any country forces a religious organization to perform an act against the tenets of its faith - even if maybe those tenets are in dispute. Nobody forces the Catholic Church to perform same-sex marriages or hire agnostic priests. The Synagogues or Mosques are not required to participate in National Bacon Day.

But the exemption for religious institutions does not apply to regular secular businesses, and any attempt to magically make the bakery into the Church of the Holy Loaves and Fishes would be seen for what it was - fake.

Presumably too, the state leaves it up to the church to sort out its internal doctrinal disputes.

There has been a brewing controversy in Canada this year about “Canadian Values”. Organizations that want to get government subsidies for summer jobs have to affirm they believe in some basic Canadian Social Values, much to the ire of some fundamentalist groups. Of course, in a truly hands-off government, the funds should be available to White Power groups too. They’re not.

This year, officials have rejected 1,561 applications for the same reasons, but also for objecting to the wording of a new declaration that required jobs to be funded, as well as the main activities of groups themselves, to respect reproductive rights.
The government said it added the requirement in response to concerns officials heard that funding through the popular jobs program had gone towards paying for students to protest outside abortion clinics or create and distribute graphic anti-abortion pamphlets.

[Grim_Render]

Being up until very recently a state church though, priests were government employees in Norway. Therefore, any practices which conflicted with anti-discrimination legislation had a problem. Exemptions for what was part of the government wasn’t really going to fly.

[Pushkin]

@Malden_Capell

Northern Ireland.

Now all the way to the Supreme Court.

[John_Mace]

@md2000

I don’t think any country forces a religious organization to perform an act against the tenets of its faith - even if maybe those tenets are in dispute.

There are countries where certain religions are illegal (Saudi Arabia) or conversion to Christianity is illegal. I think you meant “any Western country” or something like that.

[Nava]

What md2000 is talking about and what you’re talking about are completely different things.

[septimus]

@Shagnasty

Of course the U.S. isn’t the only country where that can happen. It is literally illegal to be gay at all in many countries even today. Forget wedding cakes, they can even be executed for it in some places. The U.S. is gay friendly compared to most of the world.

This is an exaggeration. Same-sex marriage is legal in U.K., France, Germany etc. — these are the U.S.'s peers, no? Some of the largest countries in Asia have prohibited discrimination against gays and are even taking steps toward gay marriage. In Vietnam, there have been no laws against homosexuality in recorded history. Ironically, the only law against homosexuality in Japan was a brief 19th-century law passed to conform to Western values! Thailand even has some laws that seem to favor homosexuals! (Female prison inmates are not allowed to wear make-up, but gay male inmates, placed in cells based on their stated orientation, are.)

[Sdowiat]

@Reply

Is America the only modern country with a Christian problem when it comes to baked goods? How do other societies handle the conflict between free practice of religion and anti-discrimination?

So you would be all for the government, at the point of a gun and the threat of imprisonment and / or financial ruin, to force a Christian who runs his on little bake shop to produce an artistic creation that was in direct violation to his long held religious faith?

I’m betting you would be all against forcing a gay baker to create the cake for an Antigay celebration… and that’s NOT a religion. ( I’d be right there siding with you on that one BTW)

What you just brought up is a really good example of why America is a Great Country and why we all need to doing our part to keep these ( as stated by our Constitution ) GOD given freedoms and liberties in place.

[Colibri]

@Sdowiat

So you would be all for the government, at the point of a gun and the threat of imprisonment and / or financial ruin, to force a Christian who runs his on little bake shop to produce an artistic creation that was in direct violation to his long held religious faith?

I’m betting you would be all against forcing a gay baker to create the cake for an Antigay celebration… and that’s NOT a religion. ( I’d be right there siding with you on that one BTW)

What you just brought up is a really good example of why America is a Great Country and why we all need to doing our part to keep these ( as stated by our Constitution ) GOD given freedoms and liberties in place.

These responses belong in Great Debates, not General Questions. Since this is an old thread, I’m not going to move it. If you want to discuss these issues, please start a new thread in Great Debates.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator