That’s fair. But I think I’d rather take that time than wait for some macrocosmic quantum leap of judgment in people, myself.
Kids are trying to figure out who they are, bigots and the bigotees alike. It is a battle everyone faces. Letting the idea out that queers need special treatment is just going to make things harder. Is that “really” what this is? No. Think that all the people that hear about this issue is going to think through it? No. Why?
Because they don’t have people that take the time to be their personal educational experience. Because it isn’t anyone’s responsibility.
And it isn’t. Steven is right.
So no fucking wonder things are taking so long to change.
I understand what the problem is. You don’t speak English very well. I’m sorry. Even given your previous posts, where you clearly had difficulty understanding simple written phrases, it didn’t occur to me to think that you might be suffering from a real language barrier. But now that I see you don’t even understand what the word “offer” means, it’s all become clear.
As Mockingbird has already pointed out, the “Q” is for “Questioning”, and that can and does include heterosexuals. This is something you must know, even with your poor language skills, as you already asked whether a “Q” student who decided he or she was straight after all would be expelled. I asked why you would believe that such a thing would happen, and you still have not answered. Why? Perhaps because there is no reason to believe such a thing other than the fevered delusions of your troubled mind.
If they did not allow straight students to enroll under any circumstances, it would be a very simple matter for them to say so. In fact, I believe they would be obligated to say so. They have a nice little list of program requirements so people will know if they are eligable or not, and sexual orientation is conspicuously absent from that list.
No, it is solely your claim that they refuse to serve heterosexual youth under any and all circumstances and will expell any student who proves to be heterosexual. If you were correct it would be very easy for you to prove it, but since you have been unable to come up with any “evidence” other than your illiterate misinterpretations of their website (which you were apparently unable to even locate on your own, as you didn’t mention it until I provided a link!) then I think it should be obvious to one and all that you are simply making things up. Or perhaps projecting. I suppose it must be tempting for someone as sadly prejudiced as yourself to believe that the whole world is the same way, but fortunately this isn’t true.
So for all those who think this school is a bad idea, what’s your answer? We have a large group of students who are LGBTQ, homeless, who cannot get an education in a safe environment in their usual places of schooling, and are essentially left twisting in the wind. Here we have a safe space for them to voluntarily apply (with no guarantee of actually getting in, mind you) so they can receive the education they obviously so desperately desire (otherwise they wouldn’t apply).
Short of some kind of miraculous change of heart of every student, teacher and administrator (and parent, for that matter) of the entire NYC school district to suddenly embrace their LGBTQ students and prevent anyone from harassing them, I’d love to hear some alternative solutions.
Ah, yet another English-language concept our new friend has trouble with – “charity”.
My tax dollars, and the tax dollars of the people of New York City, are already going to fund schools designed to serve various segments of the at-risk student population. This includes teen mothers, young people with substance abuse problems, students with learning disabilities, even youths with criminal backgrounds. If Milk is to be treated just like all these other programs for at-risk youth, it must also be publically funded.
Sorry, I don’t need to learn anything from your post even though someone else might find them informative.
My best friend in the world is gay; we live in the same house most of the time when he is not traveling for his business. We share an apt. in NY and spend every holiday together.
As my boyfriend and brother tell it, we are about as will and grace as you can get (except I have good taste in cloths)…
You need to get of the cross and take your personal sermon to someone who wants to listen because it simply is of no interest to me…
As far as me using “gay” it was directed toward Mockingbird who was mistaken about my views on homosexuals in general. (Mockingbird this is not to rekindle our disagreement as we have both moved on I believe)
Just did not have anything to do with you personally or any other person living an alternative life style…
You assume that 99% of the time he didn’t do his part to fight ignorance - and that would be incorrect. But it is not his obligation to do so 100% of the time, especially (and specifically in the case where I quoted him above) he was put into the situation against his will.
Esprix, the practice of providing a caring, understanding, and safe environment for these kids isn’t bad. The precident this might set seems contrary to the notion of not needing these schools in the first place
And have you discussed your views of his “alternate lifestyle” with him? I’d love to hear his reactions. (Oh, and at least he’s just gay, and not “gay.”)
It’s ever so refreshing to see someone so proud of their ignorance and closed mind. All of us here at the SDMB appreciate your attitude.
As if the effort to increase tolerance in mainstream schools will suddenly end because the Milk school increased to 100 students?
And what about all the other schools previously mentioned? Do they set a “bad precedent” for, say, not trying to improve education in mainstream schools in the areas those specialty schools focus on?
Anyone who actually had a gay housemate, whose business clients were predominantly gay, whose second choice for heir and guardian was gay, who seriously understood anything about the attitudes of gay people as a generalization, much less the specific individual people included in the group, would not have come off with the line about “your lifestyle choices” – would have been quick to esplaion why IHHO such a school was “unconstitutional” in response to my request, would have countered Mockingbird’s arguments with specific examples drawn from his/her own experiences (since gay people are not a monolithic whole).
In what areas specifically, culinary arts? Come on. This school, from what I’ve heard described here, is like an addition to an orphanage that doesn’t give a shit about whether or not you find penises magically delicious, and if you do, it knows enough to work with that rather than against it. I wouldn’t say this is exactly math and English.
I see three things that can come of this project. It fails, it gets expanded into other districts, and beyond the “homeless and gay” aspect, or it raises public awareness itself regarding [choose your favorite set of initials here] issues so the tradition needn’t grow much larger (if at all). I would really hope for the last in that list. Given the reaction of some here, I largely expect some not-so-good things to come of it, the least of which is bitching about funding a gay lifestyle (again, regardless of whether or not it is approrpiate; smear campaigns against anything are rarely rooted in fact).
If it were in my district, and I voted, I wouldn’t vote against it, that’s for sure. But I am still wary about what will come of this idea over time.
Sqwert, one of the people I most respect in all the world is a firm libertarian who agrees with your last paragraph. But we live in a world and in a nation where tax dollars are spent for what the politicians managing them conceive to be the correction of social ills, whether it be paying Justice Department lawyers to draft a constitutional amendment defining marriage or the provision of schools where harassed teenagers in a minority can find a safe place to get an education.
Live with it – or work to change it overall.
(BTW, that class I mentioned above – one of the students in it was an unwed teenage mother, determined to get her high school degree – which she did, married the child’s father, trained and got a job as a nurse’s aide, and is now making a good income, and volunteering to help pregnant teens. Overall, I’d say that was a good “waste of our tax dollars.”)
Can this school do some good? Absolutely. In fact, I’d say it will do some good. There are kids who need this and they should get it.
But will there be unintended consequences, and will some of those consequences be ugly? Almost certainly. And I’m not bright enough even to predict what could happen (though my very first thought was a scary one. I wondered if this meant some homophobic monster might be able to target a large group of gay kids this way. Wow, I’m paranoid).
This looks like a good idea. But schools have taken good ideas in the past and turned them into monstrous ideas. That’s what scares me; governmental incompetence really does know no bounds.
I think that some of the issues raised by opponents of this school are–at least partly–addressed in this article. However, I would like to point out that this school is optional (homosexuals are not forced to go there) and it is not gay-only (if a straight person really wanted to go there, they would be accepted). This school does not provide a “gay education,” whatever you might think that means, it provides the exact same curriculum that exists in other schools. The ONLY reason for this school–as well as the only difference between it and other schools–is that it allows students to learn in an environment where they are not attacked or distracted by threats. That’s it.
The school does not discriminate; however, given that it only has 100 spots, it would try to give them to the students most in need–those who are suffering the most and for whom homophobic actions are most destructive. If a student is straight but is being mocked with homophobic slurs, he would have a very good case for going to this school.
As for whether going to this school would have an impact on students’ sexuality, I would say it’s possible, but, IMO, unlikely. I think that if someone is dating members of the same sex in high school they have already made their decision (this is not to say that they cannot change, but rather that it is most likely that they are indeed gay). Even so, why should it matter? If they went to a “normal” school, one could make just as much of a case for them being influenced to be straight.
I must say, I am genuinely stunned. I did not realize that there were people unaware that special, publically funded alternative schools designed to help at-risk students exist. Schools for pregnant teens/teen mothers are especially common, in fact I believe most school districts of any size have some sort of program in place for these girls. There are five such programs in NYC alone, including the Martha Neilson School for Pregnant Students in the Bronx. You will note that it is listed with the other public alternative high schools, not the private schools (which can be found at the bottom of the page).
Shockingly, such schools often refuse admission to boys, and even girls who are not pregnant! They have this crazy idea that a program designed for pregnant girls or teen mothers should only admit students who will benefit from that program! Sadly, some districts (including those in New York) often pressure or force pregnant girls into these programs even when they would prefer to remain in mainstream schools.
In contrast, the Milk School does not practice such discrimination (although I would not fault them if they did want to only admit GLBTQ youth, as those are the students the program was designed for and is most likely to benefit), nor is anyone sent their against their will.
I’m sure these pesky facts won’t stop you from inventing some other stupid and far-fetched objection to a fine and worthy program, though.