"gay" mannerisms

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
1

In response to the latest “Classics” column, “Why is lisping associated with homosexuality” (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950526.html). . .

All of the suggested explanations are plausible enough. But I wonder if it isn’t a matter of looking for (and finding) a connection where none actually exists. If you meet someone with a particularly obvious behavioral trait (e.g. lisping) and you find out this person is gay, you might associate one with the other. But how many non-lisping men have you met – how many of those were gay? You can’t know for certain. How many lisping men have you met? Probably not very many, since lisping (I would think) is not common among the general population. Point being, the “sample population” is too small on which to base a firm conclusion, but you do it anyway.

If anything, I think this kind of association is a defense mechanism, an attempt (by some straight people) to identify readily something which is generally not obvious. Why? Because some people are afraid of what is different – and especially afraid of difference which cannot be easily discerned.

Why else did Hitler make Jews wear yellow stars, and gays pink triangles?
(edited to fix link)
[Edited by Arnold Winkelried on 08-24-2000 at 02:55 PM]

2

Since the article is a Straight Dope column, not a mailbag answer, this thread is leaving the Comments on Mailbag Answers forum and going to visit the Comments on Cecil’s Columns forum.

3

A July, 1995 article in the Economist (with photograph of gay rodeo captioned “I say, old chap”) (!!!) recounted the following:

"In one experiment, Rudolf Gaudio, a gay linguist at Stanford University, asked four gay and four straight men to read two passages into a tape recorder. The first was a dry excerpt from an accounting textbook, the second a dramatic passage from ‘Torch Song Trilogy’, a play about gay life by Harvey Fierstein. Thirteen people of both sexes listened to selected snippets of the recorded passages and ranked each on a seven-position scale between opposite terms: straight and gay, effeminate and masculine, reserved and emotional, affected and ordinary.

"Mr Gaudio found that listeners’ guesses about speakers’ sexual orientation were largely accurate. All the straight speakers rated on the ‘straight’ end of the scale and all the gay speakers sounded ‘more gay’. That pattern held true for both passages of text. "

Living in one of the epicenters of queer life (Chelsea, NYC) I’d have to agree that (1) yes, gay men do speak slightly differently from straight men, (2) the main reason is cultural – I notice it in myself, and it intensifies when I’m speaking to other gay men, and (3) it’s an unacknowledged means of conveying that you’re “one of us.”

Origins? Well, let’s try this one out. There’s a lot of truth to the observation that in American society, gay men have a disproportionate participation in and influence over the arts, particularly the performing arts. (I hear about these high school gay student groups and I say, Why? Isn’t Drama Club enough for you? But I digress…) The ability to assume another identity can be very appealing if you’re not very comfortable with your own. Plus, as a minority you develop a keen sense of self-awareness, and when you combine it with a little dramatic training you get…well, if not quite Paul Lynde, maybe Bruce Villanche.

It changes as you get older and you become more at home with yourself. It can even change with your appearance: a friend of mine was thin-n-wispy in college, and kind of had a personality to match. In his 20s he thickened to where he’s now built like a linebacker (and without artificial ingredients), and by and large the effeminacy is gone. Not that it’s one-to-one; my gym’s the gayest in creation and part of the fun is overhearing GREAT HUGE CUT GUYS with eeeeeeny-weeny little voices.

If you REALLY want to hear the accent, just watch Christopher Lowell’s show. Oops, I think I just outed him (:p)

4

At least for me, being openly gay, I feel a certain sense of freedom in being myself, and if that includes reading a passage from a play in my most fabulous tone of voice, so be it. I can, however, cut down trees and kick ass when required.

Straight guys are just too stuffy and hung up about appearances. Maybe that’s the problem. :wink:

Esprix

5

Christopher Lowell is gay? [astonishment] My mother, the born-and-bred Southern Baptist Church Lady, ADORES his show, doesn’t really care what his sex life is, she just likes to watch him having SUCH a good time with his furniture, and here I’ve been trying to be very PC and non-judgemental, telling her, “Mom, just because he SOUNDS gay doesn’t mean he IS gay.” I was assuming it was all a put-on. Show business, you know.

Do you suppose he’s like that in real life, or does he just crank it up when he’s on-camera?

6

I think when Christopher Lowell is off-camera, he acts just like Andy Kaufman’s alter ego, Tony Clifton: cigars, scotch, hookers, the works. He just knows that if you want to be successful in the design/decorating biz as a man, you gotta turn on the swooshiness. :smiley:

7

I didn’t really start acting fey until after I came out, and then all of a sudden I was QUEEN FABULINA. It was mostly a reaction to suddenly being able to tell the truth and to be out and not hold myself back, so all of my slight feyness that had been stored up all through that time suddenly burst out.

It’s sort of moderated by now. I don’t speak in a fey voice - at least not all the time. Mostly when I’m in high dudgeon, like when I almost get run over. (“Well! Looks like some queen’s on a schedule!”)

Other than that, I’m not exactly straight-looking-straight-acting (what tipped you off, the nail polish or the earrings?), but I’m not as femme as I used to be.

I like femme guys, though. I think they’re funny and cute.

8

Having recently watched a 20/20 segment last night on Brandon Teena, I have to ask the question: Has anyone noticed that lesbians have a different manner of speaking? Amongst the gay women I know, I have not really noticed a difference. Of course there is the traditional “butch” look, which is by no means a perfectly accurate distinguishing mark, but I was wondering about speech patterns.

9

My favorite Christopher Lowell moments are when he has on a male guest whom he starts flirting with. He flirts with all of his guests, of course…but turns it up for a certain type of guy.

10

I’ve been waiting for Saturday Night Live or MadTV to do a skit on him where he starts fondling the male guest and then wraps himself around them like an anaconda licking them from head to toe. The man makes me feel like a lumberjack.

11

My own personal non-gay interpretation or explanation - it started with the big gay pride movement of the seventies. When it became okay to be openly gay (or at least when that started to happen), the culture to act effeminent and exaggerated came out as a way to declare to the world. Now that it is more acceptable (in many circles at least), many gay men are comfortable being gay without acting “gay”. And that’s fine. On the other hand, some men like to camp it up as an expression of their identity, and there’s a bit of a cultural expectation (the stereotype defined).

I had always wondered about claims on lisping, because I never have noticed gay men lisping. The high, nasal voice is usually the effiminent cue that triggers to me. And any obvious gender bender references, of course. But there are plenty of effiminent sounding men who are straight, too. There’s a guy at work who has that tone to his voice, and I can’t help but wonder - even though he has a girlfriend. I know, I used to not be this way.

The ironic part is someone told me the other day when she first met me she thought I was gay. I’m still trying to get out of her what made her think so. I would really hate to think I’m presenting myself as gay and thus driving away potential dates.

Regarding lesbians, I have not noticed any speaking style that is stereotypical. Clothing and appearance yes (the butch style, anyway), but not speaking style. Not that I’m particularly surrounded by lesbians.

12

FWIW, the only gay guy I’ve ever had more than a passing acquaintance with was a guy who worked in an office where I was a secretary. He was about as “un-fey” as they get, 6 feet tall and 2 feet wide, conservatively cut dark hair, nice blue suit, rumbling authoritative bass voice. Never lisped except as a joke. He always had a certain amount of trouble convincing new secretaries that he really was gay. They used to have to hit on him a few times before they would take the hint, and even then there were always one or two who still didn’t really believe it. “Jim is gay? Oh, come on…”

13

There are a lot of butch dykes that have that certain “butch” tone, but it sure as hell isn’t good indicator as to their sexuality.

I went into the Barnes and Noble and was chatting it up with a short-haired clerk that had that butch way of speech. However, the moment I sat my Advocate down on the counter, she pursed her lips and gave me that disdainful “you pervert” look.

Then in my cicrle of lesbian friends there are three femmes, one merely androgynous (me), two butch, one FTM transgendered and one pre-op FTM transgendered. Out of all of us, only myself, the transgendered, and one of the butch have that “butch” way of speaking. The other butch is actually quite girly in her mannerisms.