Public toilets? I mean, what is that about? I myself have some difficultly conceiving the erotic charge that these venues appear to offer.
And that whole ‘peephole drilled in the cubicle wall’ thing? If you need to see a naked man and you are one, is there not an obvious and economical solution to that dilemma?
I have a suspicion pissing people off is a significant motivation for this behaviour. Is that true, even if it comes only from aggressive indifference? And I can’t really see how anybody could let go normal decorum in that manner.
While I confess to finding the phenomenon disturbing, this is in GQ rather than GD or BBQP because I am interested in factual answers only rather than feeding my initial impulse to post in the BBQ - P. No disparagement of any gay community is intended.
Well first of all I would refute whole-heartedly the idea that it’s done with the intention of pissing people off; whilst it does have an effect on others its an unintentional consquence of the context (as a straight man you’re an innocent bystander to this process).
Cottaging, as it’s called, emerged mainly as one of the few ways for gay men (or at least men who wanted to have sex with other men, however they chose to define themselves) to have, what was then illegal, sex. It’s not something I have ever done (I agree, it’s a smelly, uncomfortable and thoroughly unsexy backdrop to have sex against) but for some people it remains the only way they can have a sex life.
But times have changed and this isn’t necessary anymore, surely, I hear you ask. In remote or rural where the gay population tends to be low (as a consequence of the attitudes towards homosexuality being extremely hostile) cottaging and glory holing (the hole thing you describe) are quite common for the same reasons now that they were in the past - it may be the only way to get some gay action for several hundred miles, and in that situation you’d probably be willing to take what you could get. Similarly, in densely populated urban areas with high levels of gay men they’re also quite prevalent but for different reasons - namely for closetted/married men to dablle or simply as a convenient way to have some quick, anonymous sex.
Personally I agree that as a practice it’s pretty gross and can understand that straight men might find it uncomfortable or offensive. In an ideal society (where sex between men wasn’t seen as any different as sex between men and women) this wouldn’t be seen as necessary. But we don’t live in an ideal society, so it is. If I’m that desperate to get my rocks off I’d much rather go to a sex club, that way you’re clear everyone present is there for the same reasons (and it removes the risk of being arrested, too).
To answer your point on wanting to look at naked men - looking at yourself doesn’t work, and it’s a lot cheaper looking through a hole at someone than to buy/rent porn. Again, I agree it’s a pretty unpleasant practice and not one I partake in - the worst I do is check guys out in the changing room at my gym, but that’s one of the perks of being gay man and I refuse to feel bad about doing it (hey, straight men would do it in mixed changing rooms if they existed).
Does this answer your questions/points sufficiently?
I just have trouble with the idea of sticking my dick through a hole for a complete stranger to have fun with. I mean, who knows what kind of guy is on the other side? Who remembers the shower scene in “Porkys?” And even putting aside the issues of hygiene and malicious intent, There’s the very real possibility that the guy just isn’t any good at what he does.
I think Illuminatiprimus covered it pretty well, but honestly! When society tells you can’t carry out your sexual or even romantic or even affectionate realationships whithin society, social decorm tends to go out the window. What else can you do? What would you do?
Yeah, but at least you can see the person. And you have at least a little more control over what happens to your various parts than if you blindly put it through a hole in the wall and say, “Come and get it!”
Actually, Hypno-Toad, you’re kind of missing the point about the idea of glory holes with that approach. GHs are the ultimate in anonymous sex and for some people work extremely well psychologically. They even include them in sex clubs in their own sections even though they’re totally superfluous (in theory) because they cater to a specific taste/desire.
The idea is that you can suck a dick without having to know anything about the person or even know what they look like/what age they are - they could be a 70 year old obese guy, they could be Brad Pitt, as long as it looks good you don’t need to care (or could in fact just use your imagination). It’s the ultimate form of cock worship which allows one to focus entirely on the act of sex without any contact with the other person. Whether this is a good/healthy thing or not is an entirely separate debate which I would rather stay out of.
Similarly putting your dick “through the hole for a complete stranger to have fun with”, as you put it, is the other side of the same coin. It’s about sexual gratification with no requirement to reciprocate or even see the person involved (indeed, you can’t). I’m sure there are a lot of men, straight or gay, that would take that if it was safely available when they needed it (the fact that you can’t do it safely, in the various senses of the word, is what would stop me).
I can see it working in sex clubs (although I have to confess, the idea still squicks me out), but anonymously in a public lavatory, the very thought… eesh… the fear of unseen sharp knives on the other side just made my genitals retreat for a cosy snuggle with my lungs.
What’s the longest period you’ve gone with sex, or the prospect of sex? Try being a gay man living in the middle of nowhere in (for instance) Utah for six months and tell me that that hole in the cubicle wall in that notorious bus station lavatory isn’t looking a lot more appealing.
Well it’s all personal and therefore relative, isn’t it? I put that time period in for there to be one, I guess I should have said [insert the length of time it would take for your to become sex crazed].
Hah! Wait until they legalize same sex marriages. You’ll start to look back fondly on 6 month dry spells.
Seriously though, the OP question about public restrooms could be extended to any kind of public sex. I’ve walked into the washroom at a bar to find a hetero couple going at it in one of the stalls. The bathroom was filthy and smelled to high heaven but that wasn’t going to stop some anonymous animal rutting. Personally, I couldn’t get turned on in a place like that but, to each his own.
And GHs can provide a level of denial for men who refuse to admit that they have same sex urges. In some adult stores and theaters the booths sometimes have GHs and the man could think, “Well, a woman could come into this place and she might decide to check out the booth and she might get turned on so maybe the person slobbing my knob is a babe!” Of course this state of denial comes crashing down when the previously anonymous doll sticks a schlong through for a reciprocal attention.
A girl I knew had gone into a gay theater because she was curious about what the movies were like. When she had to go to the bathroom the manager warned her that sometimes there were men in there too since the ratio was a little extreme for M vs F. She didn’t care and went in. As she was sitting there she noticed the GH and wondered about it. Next thing she knew she heard someone sitting down in the stall next to her. Suddenly a dick slid through the hole. She told me it was like finding the ultimate vending machine.
She was turned on and had a good time. When the guy was finished and pulled out, he tapped on the hole, asking to return the favor. My friend thought, “What the hell,” and placed her crotch against the GH. She heard a scream from the other stall and a mad scramble to get out of there. I guess she totally ruined his fantasy.
You might want to check out this thread, in which I said,
"I’m old enough to have seen - and occasionally used - plenty of GHs, from the mid-60s to the early 80s.
"You have to put your mind back to the time before AIDS, when the “sexual revolution” was at its peak. Unlike previous generations, we considered ourselves free of moralistic “shoulds” concerning many things, especially sexual behavior. And it was the early years of anything resembling a “gay community,” when sexual and substance experimentation was the norm. And there was no real negative consequence to hold us back; the worst thing that could happen (or so we thought) was a trip to the VD clinic. (I was one of the lucky ones: I’ve never had any kind of STD.)
"It was an edgier time, plus we were all so young. It was so easy to get caught up in that scene and, like young people everywhere, we were very dismissive of the risks involved. And it seemed that there were GHs everywhere. I went to Ohio State in the late 60s, and I think they were in every building on campus. There, and later in NYC, I’ve seen them in department stores, restaurants, libraries, bus stations, just about any place that had a public restroom. And of course the gay bars and clubs.
"Their appeal was their anonymity. It was a way of just getting off, without having to deal with all the other crap. Maybe you just couldn’t find someone; maybe you didn’t feel very attractive; maybe you were in a hurry. Or maybe you were married and closeted. Or maybe you were older and considered undesirable. The GHs leveled the playing field (well, except for size queens).
“And there was a certain element of danger that made the adrenelin (and other hormones) start pumping. We all know how horny - and irresponsible - young guys can be. If straight guys had something like this, the dating scene would be greatly dimished.”