Gay Teens: A Debate

Once upon a time, there was an enchanted message board. Deep within this message board, there was a thread, a magical, wonderful thread, that was woven by all sorts of ordinary people, who had come together because somewhere, beyond the borders of their enchanted board, there were children in trouble. The thread, they thought, might help some of them. Might save their lives. And so, they spent all sorts of time, days and nights and evenings, weaving this thread together.

Now, this enchanted message board was also home to some awful monsters. These monsters were the ones the children were afraid of; they were the ones that made life so hard for the children that the children sometimes took their own lives to escape from them. These monsters saw that this golden thread that was being woven could help the children beat the monsters back, would help them band together to fight back the monsters, and the monsters couldn’t have that.

The monsters started trying to twist the thread, to get it tangled up and snarled until it wasn’t in any shape to help anybody. It became a reflection of the monsters’ nature; dark, confused and pathetic.

The people of the message board were frustrated, but they knew that the thread was important, and that they had to keep working at it. And so, they spent a little while sorting out the snarls, and went back to the work of figuring out how to keep the children safe from the monsters. They ignored the monsters, who screamed at them while they worked, and soon the monsters faded away into the darkness from whence they came.

We still have work to do here. Let’s get back to the thread.

Guys, perhaps you feel a neet to take JerseyDiamond to the pit. Or open a thread about the causes of suicide. Or maybe you need to agree to disagree. NinjaChick made an attempt to pull things back on topic, and, as she noted, there are still plenty of unresolved questions to discuss.

  1. what information and support do we need to get into the public schools?

  2. how do we go about getting it there?

  3. what other options do we have outside of public schools?

There are lots of real concerns out there–among teens of all sexual orientations. This past summer I spent a couple of weeks teaching a high school sunday school class, and the topic came up in passing. Too many students have never met anyone who was openly non-heterosexual, and so all they have to go on are stereotypes and fear–generally of the unknown. These were generally intellegent, well-meaning teens who “knew” that gays were “weird” and that was about it.

My ideas, beliefs, convictions, whatever about homosexuality changed drastically when I went to college. What did it for me? Knowing, in a variety of contexts, people who happen to be gay, lesbian, and bisexual. That was something that wasn’t there for me in highschool, so I never had to think about the “homosexuality is a sin” line I’d been fed. When I did, I began to change my mind.

I’m not saying that “people being out” is “all” it would take [and I certainly don’t want to imply that being out is an easy thing]; but I think it’s one of the major things that’s missing in many high schools. I think the suggestions that have been made about including “incidental homosexuality” in the curriculum would be a start. What else would help?

This is more or less what I sent to Punha. I have run two groups for Queer youth: one (BGLAM - Bisexuals, Gays, and Lesbians at Marianopolis) was at my cégep (junior college); another (Haven) was an independent, irregular social club that organized activities and outings and whatnot.
At any rate, as for your group. Identifying staffers would be a good thing to do. I know that one of the counsellors at my cegep was invaluable when I was running the group. Are there student counsellors at your college? What if you went from each to each, sounding them on their awareness of Queer issues and their willingness to help support a Queer group? Staff support can be invaluable.

As for publicity, I would guess the thing to do to put the word out would be to put up flyers and possibly run an ad in whatever paper or news bulletin they have there. Be explicit, but not too in your face (“Questioning your sexuality? We’re starting up a Gay-Straight Alliance, contact littlegaygroup@hotmail.com” or whatever). And put them everywhere - someone might not feel comfortable staring at one long enough to read the address,
but if they pass twenty on their way to class they’ll get the message. Be prepared to put up LOTS - they WILL be torn down, occupational hazard… :-/ If you keep putting them up, eventually people will get tired and go back to cow-tipping or whatever. It does work.

Physical violence is a risk, and it’s one you’ll have to decide whether or not to chance. Some situations are simply not worth the danger; you will have to decide that for yourself. I would advocate sticking to well-trafficked hours and areas (practical anyway, if you want people to see your flyers :wink: – don’t be caught alone. If you accrete some allies, especially staff ones, try bringing them with you for safety’s sake.

If you expect static from the administration, make sure you know the relevant code inside and out. That will show them that you’re not to be fucked with. This is a general attitude to have anyway :slight_smile:

The whole point - right now, Queer people are invisible at your school. The goal is to make Queerness visible. That will make people less afraid and more willing to stand up for themselves. It’s kind of a chicken and the egg problem, but one that’s relatively easy to break into.

As for meetings themselves? In the beginning, you might try meeting prospective, individual new members on a comfortable, one-on-one basis. Is there a café or lounge or some other anonymous locale where you can meet them? A neutral environment where they might expect to be in a crowd that doesn’t know them - so they can feel safe in having others around without feeling UNsafe for the same reason? (When Nicole and I were running TeenHaven, we used to meet people at the mall.)

When talking with them, just be reassuring. If they’re not out, it’ll
probably be enough of a struggle to make it to the meeting, if they even do. Just introduce yourself, chat, find out a little about them in a casual way, and tell them what you hope for in the group. Let them lead the conversation.

Once you’ve got one or two members who have met you and are comfortable with you, you’re ready to have a meeting! For the present I’d advise keeping the meeting time a secret among the members rather than publicizing it.

When the group is running, even if others don’t care to, you might want to talk to campus press, just to get the word out more.

These are all just suggestions of course; it’s essential you do only what you feel comfortable with - a scared, burned out facilitator is no good to anyone, so keep your reserves and don’t overexert yourself physically, mentally, morally, or emotionally.

I hope this makes some kind of sense. :slight_smile:

Pizzabrat, I wish my life was as nice as you make it out to be!

I know of people with pain: (molested as a child into her teens, her mother didn’t believe her and sent her to live in another state, after it went to the authorities, her mother is still with the jerk, married a man that is physically and verbally abusive, and shares a house with 12 people) and suicide is not an option. She is one of the strongets people I know. Even better than that, she is not whiny. She knows that life must go on. She doesn’t give up.

I never see her saying, “pity me, pity me” or bringing her abuse into every conversation so she can make people feel sorry for her. I see that a lot around her. What the hell is the point of that?

I know of a couple that has a wonderful marriage. They have been married for 32 years. It wasn’t always that way.
She is and always has been a strong Christian who married a man that turned out to be “not so nice”. After so many years of being the strong Christian wife she was suppose to be, she changed him, he saw the light. She couldn’t have asked for a better relationship.

I was in a bad relationship for 3 years. Horrible things that I will not even mention. I don’t go around saying pity me, pity me, but that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t happened. You know who my support was? Me, so yes, it is about being strong.

Please tell me that you don’t think people who are suicidal are “whiny”, Jersey.

Were you arreligious at that time or did you ever look to God? Religion is a very POWERFUL coping material.

I spent a while talking with the Visiboyfriend this evening about my options when it comes to helping out gay teens, and we concluded that the best thing I can do right now is volunteer for Wingspan. I have the time, being unemployed, and it’s a good center that can use my help. I fired off an email, and hope to hear back from them on when I can start volunteer training.

No matter how much the monsters try and distract us with their outrageous behavior, this thread is having an effect. It’s getting some of us to do what we can to help out. We’re going to win. And the monsters will be dimly remembered nightmares of the dim and distant past.

And I hate to continue this hijack more, but basically, you and your friends “knew” that good times were eventually going to come; that persevering through the tought times would lead to rewards. Not everyone “knows” that. You seem to think that the suicidal belive the good times are taking too long, and are too lazy and impatient to wait through the bad times. In reality, the suicidal are convinced that the bad times are forever. What’s the point of going on if every day is worse than the next? It’s just endless punishment. And even if YOU ever get to that point in your mind, you know that perseverence will pay off in the afterlife. Again, religion is a powerful coping material.

I don’t think religion/religious is a good word. even today, I don’t really like the word religious.

As far back as I can remember, I had God with me. During this relationship, I was very foolish and selfish. It was all about me and him.
Now that I look at what I just posted, It was more God than it was me, I just didn’t realize it then.

I think that people who bitch, moan, and complain, and always have to mention how horribly they were treated, in every conversation, are WHINY.

Wow, you sure are entertaining to watch, Jersey. Keep being outrageous, maybe people will watch you and ignore the gay kids in pain.

Well, yes. However, that’s not the same as someone who is suicidal, and you bloody well know it.

Well, Guin, so far a lot of what I have read has been something to the effect of, " whine, whine, whine, poor me, I use to be suicidal", even if it has nothing to do with the price of apple in China.

That is one of the coldest things I’ve ever read.

“They will know we are Christians by our love.”

Well, not always, unfortunately.

:mad:

Having been depressed and not quite suicidal but near it, I can tell you that it’s a load of horseshit, Jersey.

Sounds great! In what capacity are you wishing to volunteer? What services do they provide? Will you and your boyfriend be volunteering together?

Please keep us apprised of what happens – it will be interesting to see what impact this type of program is having among gay teens.

From what I understand, the center has a computer lab that’s in need of tutors and techies; I have a hunch I’ll probably wind up there. There are afternoon hours when the center is open to youth only, and since I have such a flexible schedule (being unemployed and all) I think I might end up covering some of those hours. I’d also be interested in helping out on the newsletter. But whatever the case, I’ll be helping out an organization that does a lot to address the problems faced by gay youth.

My boyfriend, being somewhat overemployed, won’t be able to help out, at least for a while.

You can find out more about the center at wingspanaz.org.

MrVisible, thank you for stepping up. Although I’m going to be 23, I remember how much it meant to have people put themselves out there so that I would be more comfortable with myself as a queer youth. What you do does make a difference.

“My mother always told me evil was the absence of empathy.” - Sgt. Joe Friday, “Dragnet,” 2/23/03.

I take my bits of wisdom wherever I can get them, and this sounds like one worth sharing right now.

Mr Visible, I take it you’ve read my comments on starting a pride group of sorts here at school, in addition to matt’s suggestions. Do you have any suggestions? At this point I’ll listen to just about anyone intelligent:)

Hmmm, lets see…a law to protect children…yea I can go that.

Then again I also favor the idea of requiring a license to have children.