Why it’s good ol’ reliable Breeder!
Breeder, Breeder, Breeder Detriot!
:d&r:
Or sucking on some poor private’s privates, even?
It’s kinda like the White House belongs to the people. You can’t live in it. You can’t even visit parts of it. And actually, what you say about it makes no difference. Yes, you’re a people, but you’ll have to get an authoritarian to explain it to you. It’s complicated.
I know that, as an avowed homophobe, I’d feel much better if all the gays were in the military. See, first of all, they’d mostly stay on base (which would be much better decorated than it is now, if I might say so) (Olive drab and sand? Puh-leeze.), so we wouldn’t have to worry about them breaking into our houses and raping us and stuff, or possibly styling our hair if we are actually of the female persuasion.
Second, and this is the important bit, there’s a distinct possibility that they’ll be killed! I see this as a win-win situation!
So is it ok for us to have communal showers? After all, to all you women, we’ve seen it before. What, the thought of us seeing your boobs is going to be more than we can handle?
So it’s ok to have those coed showers, as long as I don’t make advances, right? I can glance around, see what I want to see, and go my own way, and they can go thiers.
The argument either stands, or it doesn’t. You can’t have it different for the sexes. The physical fact of male and female is only of concern due to sexuality, not the extra bits of skin here and there.
I’m almost positive that there is a difference in the way a gay man views another naked man…or are you saying there’s not?
Read again what I said. It’s not that anyone is afraid a gay man is going to come up and grope them. It’s the fact that you’re sharing a close personal space with someone that has the potential to view you as a sexual being.
And you’re point about High school gym is more important than you think. Sure, at 30 I’d probably be a lot more comfortable if I was confronted with that situation than I was at 18. I’m I’ll bet that an 18 year old gay man is not that much different than an 18 year old straight man. Hormorns still raging a bit, and not nearly as comfortable with themselves as they will be later in life.
Within a week of Truman announcing the racial integration of the Air Force, Secretary W. Stuart Symington accepted the resignation of approximately half of the general officers in the Air Force. This was right after World War II, when the Air Force was small and not as powerful as it is now. Something like that happening now would be catastrophic, and this issue has a high degree of probability making it happen.
Ask yourself one question: Are you willing to decapitate the entire military structure over this issue, and to what end? Equality? There’s never going to be equality as long as people think the way they do now. For purposes of comparison, people still say the “N-word”, 137 years after slavery ended. This issue is virtually identical. You can’t legislate people’s thoughts, and you can’t change their minds.
This is an issue worth fighting for, I agree, but a frontal assault against the military establishment is both pointless and counterproductive. There’s got to be a better way. I leave it to you guys to come up with one, because I’m blank right now. I Just don’t see how it’s feasible right now. “Don’t ask, don’t tell” is about as good as I see it getting for a long time to come.
Oh, and carrot? Shut the fuck up.
That is all.
Yeah . . . with that patented Homosexul Glance [sup]TM[/sup].
I’m sorry andros, I must have missed the place in my post where I bashed gay people…or called them all perverted deviants.
Do you have any sort of rational argument against the statement that a gay man will look at a naked man differently than a straight man, or are you just going to jump onto the “Someone said they weren’t comfortable with something, so let’s bash them for the hell of it”
I’m not defending the stance, or the mindset behind it. I’m mearly attempting to point out the reasons I, and many of the people I worked with, were uncomfortable with the idea of gays in the military. As Airman Doors said, changing people’s minds is difficult. And until we as a society reach that point of enlightenment that you seemed to have achieved, the best policy that the military can come up with is the one they have.
Er? Um? Have I missed something? Or have you?
Righty-o, shutting up now, Mr. Airman Doors, USAF, sir!
For those of you who know me, you know I’d be the last person to be advocating discrimination against gay people.
But I do see what Atrael is saying.
I would feel much more uncomfortable with a random man (presumably heterosexual) looking at me than a random woman(presumably heterosexual) looking at me.
Then again, I think communal showers would be weird and horrible anyway.
Atrael, defensive much? I never accused you of anything.
Here, I’ll be more explicit, since my attempted humor fell so flat for you.
“Yup, gays do look at other men differently than straight men do. They use their whole bodies.” <ba-dum-bum>
Or maybe:
“Yup, they look differently–they’ve got their Elton John glasses on!” <boom-crash>
:shrug:
But in truth, I don’t see your point. What do you mean by “looking differently?” I assume you’re talking about some sort of overt leering or something?
OK, that I understand. But is the difference in how the person looks at you, or in how you react?
Elton is getting laser eye surgery. He’s selling his glasses.
Who was it who pointed out that the people who decry homosexuals as not having family values throw a hissy fit when said homosexuals actually demonstrate such values by trying to get married, raise a family, and join the military?
andros, I think that knowing that the type of person looking at me naked may be attracted to the type of person that I am would, indeed make me react differently.
Then again, I say this because I know that I would look differently at people who I would be attracted to rather than people who I am not attracted to.
I do sincerely believe the solution is to eliminate communal showers rather than keep gay people out of the military. How hard is it to put up a few screens?
Also, Airman Doors, why would having the homophobic half of the military quit be a bad thing?
Sorry andros…trying to fit in all my posts before the weekend.
deep breath
Ok, maybe I can explain more clearly. While I don’t think that there will be any overt leering, or comments, or drooling or anything like that, I do believe (and just my belief) that the mental processes may be slightly different.
Let me give a small anecdote from my own time in. I was hanging out with 2 women friends of mine in the barracks one time, and after a day of having some drinks, when it was time to get ready for the club that night, somehow the idea of showering together came up. Now there was absolutely no sexual tension in the shower at all (and this is one of those barracks showers that’s about 2 1/2 feet square). Now do you think that even though there wasn’t any touching, giggling, or groping going on, that the thought wasn’t in any of our minds? Or that I didn’t think about that later during more…solitary moments?
So I guess that in truth, I would no more be harmed by a gay man mental thinking about me after seeing me naked, than those two women doing the same thing would harm me. However in one situation, I had control over whether to let the situation occur, in the other, it’s part of my living requirements, and I have no say in the matter. Does that make any more sense?
Carrot please tell me you aren’t for real.
Was there any Whitehouse reaction to this?
Yup. I gotcha. Thanks.