Got me to thinking. In my experience, Military Intelligence was not about to lose someone simply because of their sexual preference. My unit did a lot of time in the field–we were boys, girls, gay men & women, old combat vets & new high school dropouts–and of the 50 or so members of my company I can easily recall 6 out and practicing homosexuals. And apart from the occasional “fag/breeder” comraderie jibes, there simply wasn’t a lot said, and nothing done, about it. When it came to getting a date, heteros & homos alike had to tread that fine line between respect & perceived harassment.
So when I hear stories about gays getting kicked out for no other misdeeds I’m, well, skeptical. Then again, my only experience was with MI and it may be fairly stated that, as a group, we were better educated and more prone to critical thought (which is how we qualified for the jobs!) than gun bunnies and bullet catchers, and less prone to beating up queers and ruining unit morale.
I’m considering myself naive at this point and am relying on a bunch of Dopes to set me str…er, enlighten me on how this issue is handled in other miitary houses.
As an airborne linguist in the Air Force, my experience has been, not surprisingly, quite similar.
A lot of my coworkers are openly gay. No one seems to mind. I don’t know of anyone that was kicked out because they were gay.
The Air Force has invested far too much money after all the training to lose someone over that.
Our career field is so small and most of us are educated enough that I don’t think any harassment would be tolerated.
Did anyone see the former Arabic translator who appeared on the Colbert Report recently? He claimed to have been turfed out for no other reason than being outed as gay.
In my experience (10 years active duty, seven assignments) most units don’t care one way or the other what your sexual orientation is. Just get the job done.
I knew several gay and lesbian soldiers and airmen at every base I was assigned to. I worked in a largely joint service environment, so we had Sailors, Marines, Soldies and Airmen working together and to a person, sexual orientation just wasn’t an issue.
Sure there are neanderthals, people who can’t get thier heads around the fact that some people are differenty oriented, but they are few and far between. If you can get the job done with a minimum of whining and drama, you are a valued member of the team. If your not, it’s not your orientation that is going to be an issue.
The only person I knew who was actually convicted, jailed and then seperated for homosexual conduct was an Airman at Osan A.B. in Korea, and he was turned in by his roommate who he assaulted one night while he (the roommate that is) was sleeping.
I don’t remember what particular episode of The West Wing it was, but it dealt with this issue, and the chairman of the JCS said it better than I ever could.
To badly paraphrase it…It is exactly the same as integration of the services in the 40’s. Will it be bad for morale? Probably? Will people quit over it? Probably. But the people who complain and quit are not the kind of people we want serving in our armed forces anyway. Let them go, we will better off for it in the long run.
I was in the 82nd Airborne in the late eighties early nineties, no women or openly gay guys in my unit. Don’t know about the whole Division but just the units I served in. I do know that two guys were caught in the barracks having sex. They were immediately arrested held incomunicado and discharged. Never heard from them or saw them again. I felt that many of the guys would not have had a big problem with someone being gay, and I am sure that at least some were but they sure kept it well hidden.
Yes. I saw it. Colbert also showed a clip from the Presidential candidates’ debate where they were asked to speak up if they agreed with gays being allowed in the military. Not one of them spoke up. Sad really.
I served for five years and knew two officers on my base who were gay. I had the privilege of being good friends with them and they were some of the best officers I knew. One of them could probably retire as a colonel based on ambition and effort; the other has left the service.
Both served honorably and complained occasionally about having to remain closeted. Now that I’m out of the service I can say that their commander was a prick and certainly would have discharged either of them for even hinting at their orientation – he was also sexist and did many ethically gray (and ethically dark gray…) things that would have made a much better excuse for a discharge than being gay.
What killed me was that the “don’t ask / don’t tell” policy created an atmosphere where it was okay to gay-bash (e.g. “He’s such a fag,” “that policy is totally gay,” etc.) and gay servicemen would not be in a position to stick up for their dignity. It also meant that socializing with one’s unit* was awkward because of the social pressure to bring a date or discuss dating among junior officers. That pressure really killed the ability of gay servicemen to completely integrate with their unit, making them more likely to be passed over for promotions or isolated to the point where they became security risks.
Given the success of racial integration (today’s armed forces are a nearly-colorblind meritocracy) I’m surprised that gay rights activists aren’t fighting harder to revoke the policy.
He’s one of dozens of Arabic linguists who have been discharged under DADT in the last several years. 26 Arabic and Farsi linguists per this article and I think the number is up to around 60.
My brother was in the Navy up until last month. When he and his friends wanted to squick out their wives, they would say, “After two weeks at sea, it’s just ‘helpin’ out a shipmate.’” He knew plenty of gay guys who served, not exactly openly, but in an “open secret” kind of way.
There were a few guys in my unit that were a little effeminate. We don’t know for sure, but I’d make an educated guess that they were gay. The only creepy part is the open showers. If it were at home and you knew the guy was gay, I don’t think it’d matter. It becomes an issue when you have to be naked together.
I would think that a situation might arise in the shower where a gay guy might see one of his comrades naked, be turned on, and get hard. I can see that being a potentially awkward situation.
I’m curious if anyone here has experience with homosexuality in the Marines.
Not in the military myself, but my brother (in the MI field, though attached to a combat unit. At least I think that’s right) recently mentioned that he was the only person who raised his hand when the question “Should gays be allowed to serve in the military?” came up. We both found that very depressing.
The situation can be awkward or uncomfortable without fear of being attacked. I (a hetero male) would think of a guy pretty much in the same way I would think of a woman to whom I am not attracted at all, but who may be attracted to me: whether she’s going to try and molest me or not, I’m not really comfortable showering next to her.
Yes, it could lead to potentially awkward situations, but these situations certainly aren’t exclusive to the military, nor do they prevent anyone from being able to serve. Is your discomfort at that situation worth preventing these people from giving their service (and possibly their lives) to the benefit of your military’s missions, whatever they may be?
Actually, if you think about it, mixed showers might go a long way toward eliminating workplace lust and the ensuing problems. Sure, it’s possible to look sexy in the shower, but it’s much easier just to take a shower and appear to be an average, imperfect human being with no fantasy left for the imagination of the onlooker.
I, for one, would be willing to take part in such an experiment.