I served with a guy in the mid-late ninetys who was a known homosexual but it was never freely mentioned. We were in an aviation unit and we just left the situation alone. The guy was respected and he was an excellent soldier. Everyone just accepted it and went on with business.
Another observation… A friend of mine went through SERE school with a female that both he and I had a thing for. This was during the early spring, so at night it still was bitter cold and the ground had very little latent heat. At night they had to huddle together to keep warm. He said that there could not have been anything less arousing than being colder than he had ever been in his entire life. He admitted they became so cold that he was absolutely uninterested in anything else other than to get warm. So, in that situation I believe that a persons homosexuality would be put on hold… and I’m willing to bet it has already happened in the past.
As far as the comment about the open shower business… Come on, do you really think that a guy would lose control in the shower? The fear of the repercussions alone would probably numb the experience. My logic is this… if I were allowed to shower with many, many women in an open shower it’d be in my best interest to maintain control, enjoy the view and make sure I was invited back again!
Did you ever shower in gym class? How about at the gym after working out? Odds are that you’ve already been in the shower with a gay man and didn’t know it.
“I can’t shower with another man - he may be attracted to me.” Or not.
Seeing a person of your desired sex nude is actually not that arousing in a non-sexual context. e.g. I highly doubt every guy in a nudist colony has a boner 24/7. If you get aroused, then you’re probably making the context sexual in your head.
Almost never; basically only if there’s some reason I can’t go home afterwards.
I’m sure I probably have, especially considering some of the neighborhoods and gyms I’ve been in. It doesn’t really bear on how I feel about it, I guess. Gay man, straight man or woman, I’d just really rather not shower with you.
Again, it isn’t out of any irrational fear that I’m going to be jumped and molested, or even out of fear that some guy is going to pop a stiffy while looking at me (although that would be rather awkward). It’s my discomfort at the idea of being naked in close quarters with someone I’m not intimate with, or at least attracted to. And that group includes many women and virtually all men.
I personally knew a large-ish numbers of lesbians, and a couple gays, in the Navy.
By-and-large, they were no better, no worse, than any of their peers. I had no problem trusting them, working with them, serving with them. They’re just people. With one exception, that is. But his problem had nothing to do with sexuality, and everything to do with being a snot-nosed punk, a weasel-faced cowardly little shit, and a vicious sneak. And I’ve seen plenty of arrow-straight people over the years that had the exact same failings as he did.
I’ll echo this. When I was in school I participated in team sports, and showered with other males my age. A few of them I was terribly attracted to. I never caught BITS (Boner In The Shower). I also kept my head at eye-level or higher. I was the target of some general juvenile anti-“Sally” ribbing, but unlike many of the “straight” guys I didn’t play grabass or set up a naked slip 'n slide on the locker room floor. And, like I said, despite being attracted to a couple folk I never got an erection while showering. So, yeah, the guy who said
I’ve known some of those involved in the whole gay Arabic linguist fiasco. As a gay former Army MI linguist myself, I hate to say this but in the interest of fairness:
Many of the Arabic linguists who got the boot were unprofessional, queeny, prissy way-too-open-about-it fags who were also busted for drugs. These guys were out of control, taking ecstasy and going to PT, shit like that. There were good reasons the military went after some of these guys. They weren’t good soldiers.
I’m really ashamed of some of these guys. A lot of good gay soldiers unfortunately got rounded up with them, but it was a bad bunch that got the witch-hunt going.
These kids, they’re brilliant. You have to be pretty damn smart even to get into the Language Institute, and to be good at Arabic you’ve got to be among the best of those. But some of those kids thought they were such hot shit they could treat their military career like a big gay drug-taking circuit party. Sorry, no matter how smart you are, you’re not that good.
Question: I assume that the decision-makers in the military are reasonably bright people, and have no more desire to start political fiascos than anyone else. So, if these people (or rather, some of them), actually were bad soldiers, why not just kick them out for being bad soldiers? No one will bat an eye if a fellow gets dishonorably discharged for doing drugs. Why go for the Section 8?
People can be bright and still be quite homophobic. Plus, many many soldiers feel it’s their obligation to investigate, prosecute and discharge any gay once it’s known. These witch-hunts usually aren’t started by people who are thinking in terms of “could this become a politcal fiasco?” They start with old-school brigade and higher commanders who more or less set the tone: “I don’t want no homosekshuls in mah unit!” This filters down to younger commanders who also aren’t thinking in terms of political fiasco but rather not getting a bad review by their superiors. Worse though, it quickly falls into the hands of, in the case of the Army, CID (Counter Intelligence Division). These guys are bastards. Some of the older guys I’ve worked with, not so much. They’ve seen it all and don’t really care if someone’s gay too much. But the younger guys, they’ve got something to prove and they use every underhanded tactic they’ve got to not only get confessions, but get people to narc out others. “Oh, you’re going to prison. Well, unless you give us a few names.” I’ve been interrogated by these guys. They lie. About everything. They scare the shit out of young soldiers who don’t know any better. They get their claws into one young soldier and the next thing you know, they’ve got their hands on dozens of scared young soldiers. Once the train starts rolling, there’s no one to step in and say “uh-oh, this is gonna hit the news.”
I’m not sure if I’m answering your question though. Why not bust them for drugs and ignore the gay part? I guess because the people who do the actual throwing out of gay soldiers are still pretty homophobic and they don’t give a rat’s ass what the International Herald Tribune is going to think, and it rarely gets into the hands of someone really far up the chain of command who might think twice about it, before it’s too late. You bust some nelly trouble making queen for drugs and you think you can round up a bunch more gays - bonus! “It’s mah duty as a God fearin’ soldier!”
Thanks, levdrakon - informative post. One question, though - for some reason, I thought CID stands for “criminal investigative division”, not counter-intelligence. Have I been misinformed all these long, misinformed years?
“Nothin’s queer in the field”