The second most responsible group for the bloodshed (after Hamas) are the westerners who allow their disgust at the horrific situation to overwhelm their good sense.
Of course, this is precisely the response Hamas is looking for.
Hamas grins while butchering their own people, strapping bombs to their own children, firing rockets into Israeli schools from the middle of crowds of civilians, because they know a large portion of the western world will react to the horror by either giving in to Hamas, or just pretending both sides are evil.
The truth is, we cannot let Hamas’ strategy work. We are all better off if Israel responds to acts of war as exactly what they are, rather than holding back because Hamas is using human shields. The problem is westerners who validate Hamas’ strategy, ensuring that they will keep using it and the violence will continue.
If there was widespread agreement that it is not ok to use children as living bombs and shields, and that such a strategy will not be allowed to work, then Hamas would lose support. I will be the first to admit that it is hard to stomach… it is absolutely horrifying. But it is the right thing to do.
Absolutely! It was a few hundred yards to the left of the Damascus gate, just outside the Old City walls. (That’s in the Muslim quarter.) I used to live there, working in the missionary field, so I’m thoroughly familiar with the different regions of Israel. The well-established hospital was Palestinian run with exclusively Palestinian patients, and I was sent for by a friend who knew the girls because I’m an English-speaking physician. I don’t know the name of the hospital but it was there eleven years ago when my family and I left Israel.
I have always thought a lot of the four teenage boys who ran through the streets in that heat, carrying the girls on hand stretchers, and of the kindness of the staff at the hospital for accommodating the girls. They quite literally saved their lives and wouldn’t take a shekel for it.
It’s nearly always those who have the least who give the most, I’ve noticed, and not just in Israel - the trend appears to be universal.
What you’ve stated about Jews and Palestinians receiving equal treatment at hospitals in Jerusalem is untrue - in the extreme. Please go to this Google page and click on any one of the sites and read. East Jerusalem Palestinian hospitals - list - Google Search
There’s nothing quite like being somewhere to clear your head of spin. - Jess.
What is stated on the news and taken to summits is nowhere near an accurate depiction of conditions in Israel and the surrounding countries.
I know of no Jew who would consent to admission to a Palestinian hospital - and vice versa. That would be akin to Custer going to a Sioux or Cheyanne medicine man, or a Brit going to a Nazi hospital with an expectation of living. These people are at war, folks, they do not tolerate each other well. - Jesse.
IIRC the offensive in Lebanon was led under the command of an airman fond of electronic warfare, the current one by an army man with more concern for land operations.
You’re new here… so it’s understandable that you’ve not yet realized that a scattershot list of raw google hits (or “google vomit”) isn’t a good way to provide cites.
As it is, the cite you did give doesn’t give a full picture. The reason that Palestinian ambulances aren’t given freedom of movement is because they’re often used to transport explosives or sometimes as troop carriers. Now that doesn’t necessarily mean that Israel shouldn’t streamline things as much as possible, but simply mentioning the problems Palestinian ambulances face without mentioning why is a bit odd.
Alessan, aren’t there hospitals whose patient mix is more Arab or Jewish?
For example, there is The St John Eye Hospital which primarily serves the Arab population. (And by their report is equipped “to an exceptional high standard”), and The Augusta Victoria Hospital which serves Arabs of both Jerusalem and the West bank (more about that institution here.)
Maybe that list only lists those that are officially part of the Israeli healthcare system and these ones are privately owned and run outside of it? They seem to focus on serving the Arabs of the West Bank who obviously do not have coverage as Israeli citizens.
I don’t know the names of the hospitals, Brazil. I don’t know the names of the schools or fire stations either. Do you know the names of all the institutions where you live? I was preoccupied with saving the life of sixteen-year-old girl and her eighteen-year-old friend on the ONE occasion I had cause to visit that hospital. I was in Isra-el as a missionary - not the town surveyor.
I can tell you where the Yad Vashem is, does that count? :rolleyes: I’ve even spent LOTS of time at the Garden Tomb, in the Garden of Gethsemane, and dozens more places in which I actively had an interest. Most of my time, however, was spent conducting clandestine Bible studies with Muslims and Bedouins ensconced underneath stairwells and similar cubbyholes.
If you’re going to use profanity then at least be man enough to come out and say it. Bullshit isn’t much of an insult, but we do strive for accuracy on this forum.
When you’ve spent thirty-five years preaching and teaching the Gospel in life-threatening conditions in Israel and other places, then perhaps I’ll be interested in what you think you do and don’t know (or believe) about weaponry and the names of local institutions.
Have a spectacular day!
I KNOW The Lord made armchair quarterbacks for a good reason - just can’t figure out what it is! :smack:
I certainly know the names of every hospital where I have visited a patient. As well as the names of most hospitals I have had occasion to visit for any reason. The names I have forgotten, I could easily look up on the internet based on my recollection of their locations.
Not only that, but it’s not credible to me that there is a hospital in Jerusalem which is so poor that it cannot afford to purchase basic sanitation equipment such as mops but still has enough money to pay for doctors, nurses, and other personnel necessary to keep the hospital’s doors open.
As noted before, I think your claim is incorrect.
I have no reason to doubt that you have spent time in Israel.
I’ve never been to Israel and I’ve never taught the Gospel but I have plenty of experience with people making self-serving and untrue claims to me and that’s what counts here.
You can’t provide any cite to back up your claim; you can’t even produce the name of this supposed hospital. I’ll draw my own conclusions.
:shrug: If I had a choice between showing up gravely ill and impecunious at a hospital in Harare and at a hospital in New York, I know which I would choose.
I did not make a claim, I related a personal experience and one fact about the hospital’s ability to purchase a mop. Now, why didn’t I think to ask how the doctors and nurses were recompensed? Even if my thoughts had been hovering in that area, I would have considered it rather poor form to question a physician about his/her salary.
Truthfully, I was more concerned about the conditions at the hospital than the salaries of it’s employees. Perhaps they volunteered. Some of us do you know.
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Whew! I’m so relieved. :rolleyes:
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Did I misread your above paragraph, or did you just call me a liar? So, it didn’t happen because YOU weren’t there. A little arrogant don’t you think so? You say you are a physician - PROVE IT!
PROVE you know the name of the hospitals you have had occasion to visit!
PROVE I am not telling the truth! If you cannot (and you cannot), you have libeled me. Shame on you!
Be my guest.
If you treat your patients with the same arrogant manner you display here, it won’t be long before you are impecunious.
Call any hospital and talk to any doctor in East Jerusalem and ask them about conditions there. That’s all the proof you’ll need.
You’ve obviously never seen real poverty, let alone experienced it. You are far from impecunious, I challenge you to call them. I won’t hold my breath waiting for your apology.
I wouldn’t know. As I mentioned previously, my family and I left Isra-el eleven years ago, and the incident I mentioned took place only weeks prior to our leaving. I can’t say with any certainty anything other than to reassert my original point, which is that these people are at war and they are not on anything like an equal footing financially. The desperation there eleven years ago was bad enough, with six soldiers with well-worn machine guns sitting on every local transit bus, the IDF knocking on your door at 3 a.m. demanding your papers etc. Not what one would call fun.
The only side I’m on is that of PEACE. I have no personal bias against any race on Earth. It is clear, from the comments on this thread, that many here are unaware of the horrific level of poverty there though, and that is why I bothered to post in the first place. If the Palestinian Authority was given as much as you say they were then the money certainly isn’t going to their people. Israel is still easily the wealthier of the two countries and it is backed by the United States.
Given that the U.S. is bankrupt that shouldn’t be much of a boon, but the rest of the world cannot (YET) permit the US dollar to fail completely. It’s fiat money, backed by nothing but the confidence of the people, but… that’s another thread.
It’s not my responsibility to go looking for proof for your claims. You claimed that a certain hospital cannot afford mops, and yet you cannot even name the hospital.
I have my own rules of debate. One rule is that you can’t attack strawmen, i.e. you can’t misrepresent my position. Please either (1) show me where I argued that your experience did not happen because I was not there; or (2) admit that I made no such argument and apologize.
In post #48, you called my story about the lack of a mop 'BS.'
In post #53, you said my story was ‘Not credible’ and 'Incorrect.'
In post #55. you made the following statements,
[QUOTE]
You can’t provide any cite to back up your claim; you can’t even produce the name of this supposed hospital. **I’ll draw my own conclusions.[/**QUOTE]
You failed to address whether you called me a liar when I asked if I’d misread your paragraph. It certainly reads that way to me.
I told you a true story about an experience of mine and you think it’s Bullshit, not credible, incorrect, and implied that the hospital doesn’t exist - ‘Supposed hospital,’ and you stated that you’d draw your own conclusions, **strongly **implying that you do not believe what I told you.
I didn’t know, on that day, that eleven years down the road I would relate that experience on a BB in a debate forum. I have led a rich, full life and have many experiences, as most people do. The NAME of the hospital wasn’t important to me. It still isn’t, but I don’t expect to be called a liar and ‘self-serving’ (where are you pulling that one from?) because I bother to try to explain to people what other people are coping with half way round the world.
Is this the measure of a gentleman in the circles in which you travel? Rude, arrogant, presumptuous behavior, and all of this directed toward a lady?
There are days in this life when I thank GOD with an increased intensity and fervor for my own husband, who knows how to treat other human beings with honor and respect.
I have no reason to doubt that you have spent time in Israel.