And I’ll stick to using Fram, because in my experience the quality is fine.
Not picking on you specifically, but you’re doing the same thing, you anonymous person on the internet. You got good life out of your cars, but do you know for sure why? Did you do a double-blind test, where two identical cars were run through the same conditions, the only difference is that one used Fram, and the other used not-Fram? Because otherwise your anecdotal data point is no different than my anecdotal data point. Can you state with certainty that your non-Fram filter is the reason your engines lasted? Maybe you’re just throwing “a few bucks at each oil change” away?
Yep, I’m perfectly aware of that. I’ll still find somewhere else in my life to save $5 before I cheap out on an oil filter. Cheap insurance, even if I will never “know” that it matters.
I do know this. If I’m buying a car from a private seller, one of the things I do is look under the front end and see what brand of oil filter is there. I consider it a good indicator of if they were a “bare minimum” or a “better than I need to be” caretaker of their car.
Truly, this is a YMMV discussion. I’m perfectly aware that I’m a little over the top on mechanical stuff. I’m a single guy with three cars and two motorcycles!:rolleyes:
Sturgeon’s Law is meant to apply to pieces of literature and art. Not consumer goods.
It gives the cynic the ability to look sophisticated instead of merely cynical.
A decent product that sells for less than $5. The monsters.
That’s the point though- cheap insurance against what exactly? Having some sort of engine-related failure at 350k miles instead of 325k for the FRAM filter?
Like others have said, the sheer number of them that have been in use in millions of vehicles over billions of miles points to them being adequate at worst. Maybe they’re not premium, but they’ll do the job just fine.
Anecdotally, my dad drove a 1982 Pontiac Bonneville for 250k using whatever oil was cheapest/filter was cheapest or whatever quicky lube place was cheapest. Engine never failed. Running German Castrol and a Mobil 1 filter wouldn’t have changed a thing.
'Twas I that did the asking! I appreciate your input, as you always have something to contribute to the gearhead threads. I invite you to stick around.
The point is this - I have three cars, let’s say I do 2 oil changes per year per car. 6 total oil changes. Each time I spend $5 more by NOT buying a Fram.
$30.
A year.
Who gives a shit, at that price? When I can do my research and see that Fram uses lower quality materials, I’m not going to spend an extra $30 total a year? Uh, nope, I’m not going to save that $30. Luckily, I’m at a point in my life where $30 a year is zilch to me. Not saying it’s the right answer for everyone, but since the OP asked…
I know I’m beating a dead horse into a greasy splotch. But you’d be surprised how quick customers are to blame QuickyJiffy when things failed in their cars. We had a monthly budget for sending vehicles to the dealer if our techs broke something or if a vocal customer believed we had.
I had one claim I’ll never forget, mostly because I knew I had broken something and I stayed silent. Standard procedure was to grease a joint until you saw old grease coming out of the joint. I didn’t know that Ford used a new style of sealed grease boot on their Rangers, and accidentally overfilled one until it burst as I waiting to see old grease. I wiped up the explosion and let the vehicle roll. My boss let me know about a month later that they were repairing the boot at the local dealer and I kinda just hung my head.
Anyways, if a pressure by-pass valve had failed 5 miles into the filter’s life, and an engine seized 4,000 miles later, you bet I would have heard about it from the customer, my boss, the gloating dealership, the mailman, etc.
A seized engine due to an oil filter would have started a company wide discussion.
A hundred years ago I used to always use FRAM and, I must admit, never had any problems. But I read the other message boards, saw the independent investigations and decided to use Purolator or Wix or OEM instead. They aren’t that much more expensive. I honestly don’t know if they make much of a difference, but I guess I have that peace of mind just in case.
Just checked Amazon. Here are the actual differences in price between the Fram oil filter and the K&N filter for my three vehicles.
Honda Ridgeline - Fram is $4.63, the K&N is $10.15
Mini Cooper S - Fram is $12.66, the K&N is $13.40
BMW 320is $11.04, the Mobil1 filter is $12.69 (no K&N available for this older car)
So, again using my 2 times a year per car example, this is now a yearly cost of actually only $15.82.
So, again, why are we willing to settle for something described as “adequate at worst”?
“We” aren’t settling. I LIKE Fram. I do not describe them as “adequate at worst”. I have used them my entire car-working life. I will continue to do so.
You are welcome, as always, to use whatever you like, for whatever reason. I’m not even thinking bad thoughts about your reasons.
What you’re saying is that premium filters are essentially multi-vitamins for your car. Not expensive, and potential “insurance” against something that is likely never to matter under most conceivable conditions.
Do you get wonky about whether someone uses synthetic/non-synthetic or about specific brands of API-rated oil?
I’ll still find somewhere else in my life to save $5 before I cheap out on an oil filter. Cheap insurance, even if I will never “know” that it matters.
But you’d be surprised how quick customers are to blame QuickyJiffy when things failed in their cars. We had a monthly budget for sending vehicles to the dealer if our techs broke something or if a vocal customer believed we had.
Standard procedure was to grease a joint until you saw old grease coming out of the joint. I didn’t know that Ford used a new style of sealed grease boot on their Rangers, and accidentally overfilled one until it burst as I waiting to see old grease. I wiped up the explosion and let the vehicle roll. My boss let me know about a month later that they were repairing the boot at the local dealer and I kinda just hung my head.