I was on another forum (I know, right?) and they were roundly slagging FRAM oil filters.
I had no idea they had a bad reputation. Or do they? Is it just these kooks? I’ve used them for ages, never had a problem. Consensus there was Napa or Wix.
What do all you regular car nuts of The Dope think?
FRAM filters probably are better now, but they absolutely went through a period where they were lower quality. Today their “Extended Guard” line is generally seen as a quality product, but I still would not put one of their entry level “orange can” filters on one of my cars.
I use OEM filters on all of my cars, with the exception of the 33 year old BMW. The MINI gets a MINI filter, which is actually made by Mann. The Ridgeline gets a Honda OEM filter, which is made by Toyo Roki. The 33 year old BMW gets a K&N aftermarket filter.
Not being a gearhead, how can you tell whether two filters are different/one is better? This is something you change regularly and can’t normally get a look at otherwise, so I can’t imagine it making a huge difference that someone could notice, but then I’m prepared to be educated. It just seems like if gamers stopped debating over video cards, processors, cooling, and SSDs and instead put their focus on arguing over the best DVD drive.
Many have cut apart filters to see how well they are constructed and what filtering medium is used. I haven’t done so, but you can head over to www/bobisthoilguy.com and search for almost any brand of filter to see how it is rated. Be prepared for true gearheads with way too much time on their hands with strong opinions on oil, filters, etc.
I know the forum of which you speak, and most of the criticism of FRAM oil filters is of the “how many angels can fit on the head of a pin” kind of stuff. Arguments over filter square inches, cardboard vs. metal end caps, how heavy the can is, whether the anti drainback valve is silicone or plain rubber, etc…
In my opinion, the proof is in the pudding. The FRAM filters were the lowest cost, most ubiquitous filters at most quicky-lube places and at Wal-Mart for the longest time. If there was really an issue with them, or if the other filters were noticeably better, it would have been demonstrated by now, but it hasn’t. Plenty of people have run their cars 200,000 miles with FRAM filters and super-cheapo barely-meets-the-spec bulk oil with no issues. Those nuts over there would have you believe that running a super-premium filter and special German synthetic oil would have your car turn into the Methuselah of cars, but it’s just not so.
In the final analysis, unless you’re doing extreme stuff, and/or operating in extreme conditions, like Death Valley rally races, or arctic exploration, the normal, bargain-basement stuff that meets the spec is for all practical purposes as good as the super-premium stuff.
Those guys over there are hobbyists, and have the hobby-dork thing going in full effect.
When I had vehicles (ten years ago), I always changed the oil, filter myself. Was up on kinds of oil and filters.
But today, don’t most people use the Insta-change oil places?
This. Field experience related by auto repair professionals told of many cases of oil pressure problems that were solved by replacing a Fram filter with another brand. They marketed the hell out of them as a quality product while having problems that even the budget brands didn’t have. I don’t think there’s any excuse for making crap and calling it wonderful, and still don’t trust them.
Many house brand budget line filters are made by Wix, which has a deserved reputation for quality. I’d take one of those over a Fram any day.
Of the two people I have known who had an opinion, Fram filters at the time had a terrible time keeping the filter medium securely in the can. These were for large heavy duty diesel engines.
What? You got one of those “new fangled” 320’s? Last real BMW was the round tail-light 2002’s! 
None of that rectangle shit!
I’ll bet you guessed the wrong forum, but I suspect you analysis is spot-on. Hobby Wanking, Warp Factor 8.
They claim the glue that holds the medium degrades and fouls the whole oil system.
How the hell would they know this unless they chop open the used filters and examine them under a microscope? They also complain about the by-pass valves and general construction.
My theory: If they were absolute shit (to paraphrase the site “FRAM = Forever Ruining Automotive Machinery”), they would be out of business. I don’t know, I’m kind of a slacker in routine maintenance and generally lazy, so my cars are probably damn lucky to get any filter at all now and then.
Keep the input comin’, Please!
I think the point when I realized that those guys were full of shit is when they started going off about how certain conventional oils were/are conclusively superior to other premium oils- like Pennzoil being notably better than Quaker State, for example. All met the relevant API specs at the time, and all are made by the same freaking company!
I had a hard time believing that Shell (producer of Pennzoil and Quaker State) would produce an inferior product in one line, and a markedly superior one in another- it’s not a profitable thing to do- the better thing to do would be to make one oil and market it in both bottles.
I’ve used Fram filters when I change my own car’s own (and my truck’s before that). I’ve used other filters. I’ve never noticed a difference based on filter. I’m reasonably sure that any difference is miniscule. The more important factor is actually changing your oil+filter on a regular basis.
I just buy whatever’s on sale. Haven’t had a problem in 15 years.
because the average person doesn’t know any better. As long as no warning lights are on, everything is A-OK. Besides, FRAM is the most ubiquitous brand, carried by almost everyone. Me? I’ll spend an additional $0.50-1.00 for a Wix or Purolator which isn’t made like shit.
Just like the human body can go for 60-70 years on a steady diet of crap food, a modern engine can run a long time on contaminated/poorly filtered oil. Until one day something lets go, and the owner blames the car and swears never to buy that brand of car again.
I’ve had wankers tell me the same thing - back in the 1980s! They were full of it then, and they’re full of it now.
I’ve run Frams forever. Never saw one problem, never had an engine failure.
There is a type of person that hates whatever is popular, just because it is popular. (There are a lot of them on this board!) Learning to recognize them and ignore them makes life much more pleasant.
I was a lube technician for a local oil change shop as a young man. Acting as the lower bay technician for most of it, which means I was the guy the customer doesn’t see who runs around in the lower bays like a monkey, changing engine oil among a bunch of other possible maintenance services.
Our chain used Fram almost exclusively and never once had a an issue obvious to us. We would start and run each vehicle after the change and never once had a filter fail in a way we could detect. Vehicles that were “regulars” had normal looking oil come out of them when they returned.
Purely anecdata, but after doing roughly 12,000 to 15,000 oil changes you’d think I’d have a single failure or liable damage to report if Fram was actually such garbage.
Interesting link.
Ah, my litmus test for finding out if the car guy you’re talking to is an idiot. If they present a cutesy interpretation of a brand name in acronym form, feel free to zone out.
(Not saying that Gatopescado is an idiot)
Fan wankery at it’s worst. Paraphrasing:
“This filter is terrible because I broke the filter adaptor when I removed it.”
“This is garbage because the manufacturer used cardboard in places where I believe it should have been METAL METAL METAL!”
Seriously? Some guy with a bandsaw and an internet connection knows better than Fram? And you took his word over a company that has an extensive testing and research facility, and has probably sold billions of oil filters?
That’s how people think, or more accurately, “think” these days. Why use SCIENCE when some guy on the internet knows better? Who you gonna trust - people who do research, take measurements, perform studies, or some asshole with a camera and an internet connection?
As for me, I get all my information from facebook and youtube*. That’s how I know the truth about:
JFK
Vaccines and autism
The moon landings
The WTC
*disclaimer. This is a lie.
Actually not surprised that the guys at the local JiffyLube don’t know if there have been any failures. The majority of people who go to a local lube shop see their car as an appliance, pure a to b transportation. When their engine fails or begins running poorly at 180K, they junk it and go buy another appliance. No one performs a post mortem to see why it failed. Part of our throw it away society.
Besides, if someone’s 15 year old Taurus spins a bearing, I don’t think their first thought is “Hey, I’ll bet it’s because I didn’t use the best quality oil and filter”. It’s more likely “Well, it was a piece of crap anyway, so no big loss”.
The maker of this video sneaks a few unfortunate editorial comments in, but the part where he shows the assembly on the filters is interesting.
In my history of owning cars, I’ve taken two of them over 300K miles. Both were NOT cars known for longevity, a 93 Passat VR6, and 1989 Bronco II. Bronco was still running fine when I sold it, and the Passat fell victim to someone running a red light and t-boning it.
I’ll stick to not using FRAM filters. A few bucks at each oil change is cheap insurance.
Sturgeon’s Law.
[ul]
[li]Popularity is not indicative of quality[/li][li]Most things are crap[/li][/ul]
Popularity and quality aren’t highly correlated and most things aren’t very good, so it’s not a surprise that most popular things aren’t very good!
Assuming that a company (in this case, Fram) has a better product because it is popular is just plain wrong. It usually means they have some combination of:
[ul]
[li]better marketing[/li][li]better placement/pricing agreements with retailers[/li][li]ability to sell cheap[/li][li]good brand name recognition[/li][/ul]
Fram has invested heavily in these areas. And I’m sure they’ve invested heavily in R & D as well, but they have chosen to be the “low cost provider”, so their research has been around providing a decent product that can be sold for less than $5.