This doesn’t really seem like a gender issue. There are two different activities: a ball game and wine tasting. Lots of people like doing both two things, but they don’t get to decide on the day of the event. They have to make a decision in advance without concern about which event they might prefer on that day. If I pick baseball but on the day of the event I prefer wine tasting, oh well, too bad. I’ll go to the game and make the best of it and go wine tasting on another day.
Typically, the bride and groom events are for their respective friends. If the bride has a close male friend, he may go to the bride’s party. And if the groom has a close female friend, then she might go to the groom’s party. Sometimes even the wedding parties themselves will be mixed genders. Sometimes there are female groomsmen and male bridesmaids. I don’t see that Shawn’s gender identity on that day should really matter since the parties will often be mixed genders.
Shawn may have a misunderstanding that the bride and groom parties are strictly gender segregated and that you have to either identify as female or male respectively according to the party. That is not the case. Women can go to the bachelor party and men can go to the bachelorette party. Gender neutral people can go to the bachelor party or the bachelorette party. The parties are typically structured around typically male or female activities, but gender identification is not a requirement to go to either party.
I’d humbly suggest it shouldn’t be up to a vote, but up to the bride and groom.
For example, I fucking hate Las Vegas. I don’t gamble (I minored in Statistics so I can’t convince myself that I might win) and I am not really a nightlife person. But when one of my buddies had his bachelor party in Vegas, I drove my ass out there and put on a happy face, because his bachelor party isn’t about me, it’s about him.
Frankly this person sounds like a drama llama with an enabling mom. If they proclaim they won’t go to either event, consider it a bullet dodged. Keep an eye on them at the actual wedding, as they will be looking for a way to make it about them and their mom will assist.
Maybe it’s a bit of a strong term. But I don’t understand the whole “well it would be easier if these were gender neutral events anyways” sentiment. Sure; and it would be easiest to just go to the courthouse and get married in an afternoon and not bother with any of the peripheral parties at all.
In reality, people liking having weddings, and they like doing a whole bunch of things around that. Sometimes they want to have gendered events, other times they don’t. That’s up to them and their preferences. Where those preferences are reasonable rather than bigoted, there’s nothing wrong with leaving them be. IMHO.
I applaud your daughter for calling and asking Shawn after the shower incident. I think it shows a great deal of empathy and class. As far as I’m concerned Shawn should have made a choice or told her that they didn’t think they would feel comfortable picking either being uncertain how they would feel for the occasion. I also would have found it acceptable if they asked that if there were spaces available on either side very much closer to the date they would appreciate being asked again. I think Mom sounds very defensive. Usually out of guilt.
At this point, daughter could have told SIL not to worry, that she will be happy to decide if they’re coming to the wedding.
Regardless of what choices might have been “easiest for all”, your daughter was honestly trying to be inclusive and considerate, while Shawn was being unhelpful. Even if these honest attempts were wrongheaded (and your daughter’s was not) people who are obviously trying to be kind should be met with kindness, not getting blasted for their True Homophobic Colors.
Well, it does seem simplest not to gender the events. But if the bride and groom want traditional, gendered events, they should do that.
That being said, i picked all female friends for my bridesmaids, because i didn’t think out of the box, and i regret that. There’s a guy I was closer to, and remain closer to, than the bridesmaids. So I’m in favor of suggesting the idea of degendering these things, so at least folks think about it.
Anyway, in this particular case, the bride was sensitive and inclusive, and Shawn was difficult and their mother was rude and nasty. There are lots of places in life where you need to make decisions in advance.
One thing we don’t know is if Shawn complained to SIL about being excluded by a homophobic cousin, or if Shawn mentioned to SIL that they couldn’t decide what to do so they’ll skip the events, and SIL ranted all on her own.
Fwiw, when the events are structured along gender lines and not along “pre-existing friend group” lines, i think this IS common. A wedding represents the merger of two families, and that merging is often reflected in the social events surrounding the wedding, introducing both sides to the other.
And it’s weird to complain about “homophobia”. Are their any homosexual people in this story? Maybe transphobia? Not that i see any of that, but that seems like the natural complaint.
I think actually there’s a bit of a difference - when I was young, all of the women invited to the wedding were invited to the bridal shower but the bachelor party was the groom’s friends , the men in the bridal party and possibly a couple of close relatives of the bride or groom who were not in the bridal party. And by “close relatives” , I mean siblings and possibly fathers, not cousins. Now that there are bachelorette parties instead of showers, they seem to be the same way - just friends and possibly very close relatives on both sides. There were at least 60 people at my bridal shower (probably more). I’ve never heard of a bachelor or bachelorette party that size.
Going back to the idea of non-gendered events, the problem with that , I think is that even events based on friend groups will often end up very predominantly one gender or the other. Lots of brides will have all or nearly all female friends and the reverse for groom’s. Sure , you could have one pre-wedding party for all of their combined friends - but a lot of times part of the point of these events is for each person to be with a small group of their own friends. Which is also an issue with “pick one, either one” as a general rule. I wouldn’t particularly have wanted one of my husband’s friends at my bachelorette party because he preferred a wine tasting to a baseball game. One of his relatives being gender-fluid is a different situation and I wouldn’t have a problem with that person attending either party. I would have a problem with the idea that the person might show up at one or the other and no one will know until the day of. Sometimes, a persons issues are that person’s issues and they just have to RSVP with their regrets if they can’t tell in advance which event they will feel comfortable at that day - there are other ways to deal with it but it seems that someone (either the cousin or their mother) doesn’t find those options acceptable either. I never really know if I want to go somewhere until the day of - depending on what the event is, I either go anyway or I might be “sick”. Or they could pay the advance cost for one of the events.
As I said in my very first statement- please don’t be offended if I use the wrong terms/phrases. I quoted what my SIL said whether the terminology was correct or not.
What i hear you saying is that the bridal shower was organized by gender, and all the (local) women were invited, whereas the bachelor party was organized by friend group, and consisted on the groom’s close friends and maybe a couple of prospective close friends.
Kind of - but the bachelor party was also single gender. If the groom had a close female friend (and I didn’t know any who did) , she wouldn’t have been invited. Due to the likely entertainment.
To the extent that there is ‘tsk-tsking’ here, it’s not so much about the violation of norms, but rather, the peripheral drama and unreasonable expectations of the guest. It is reasonable not to conform to traditional gender norms (or indeed other norms). It is not reasonable to expect two paid places to be reserved for you because you want to see how you feel on the day. I mean, just like it would be unreasonable for me to tell a waiter “Well, I’m not really sure what I want, so why don’t you tell the chef to cook one of everything on the menu, and I’ll choose when I see it”.
I suppose that is still violation of a norm to make your damned choice when the choice is in the ‘offering’ stage, but I think that norm is fair to enforce just out of practicality.
I would not at all presume the niece/nephew wanted mom to intervene. That sort of intervention would be embarrassing to all involved, and accomplish nothing.
I’m a bit confused about the gendered events. I know the bridal shower is traditionally gendered, and so is the bachelor party. But this doesn’t seem to be either of those. So, while I’m not “tut-tutting,” I am curious about that choice.