Marley23 is right in saying that “elohim” is morphologically masculine plural, not feminine as you say. Not that this explains the problem. When “elohim” is used to refer to many gods it does concord with plural forms of verbs and pronouns. But, when the word is used idiomatically to refer to God in the singular, as it does in Gen 1:26, it almost always concords with singular verbs and pronouns. Thus, the problem with this passage is a little more complicated than you have made it, and I don’t think it has much to do with Hebrew as a language.
Nate the Great
(UW-Madison Dept. of Hebrew and Semitic Studies)
So, Nate, does this mean God is speaking to someone else in this passage? The Proverb I posted makes me think that there was actually someone to speak to. If, in fact, the two scriptures are linked.
But, what does the original language (of Gen 1:26) imply? God speaking as the “Royal We?” Or God and others?
No, it doesn’t. I’m not attempting to explain the problem, since it’s a matter of interpretation and (as an atheist) I don’t have an interpretation. I just wanted to correct the mistake about the genders since it’s rather common for some reason.
I’m not trying to explain the problem either - to be honest, I have no clue.
My translation: "And God [elohim] said [singular verb], ‘Let US make humankind in OUR image according to OUR likeness.’
When I think about this, I try to remember that these types of stories actually came from somewhere and weren’t just made up on the fly. In my opinion, this creation myth first arose in a polytheistic setting and the version we have here is influenced by that. Evidence: Job 1 (wherein YHWH and the heavenly council are seen to take council), some Psalms, and some Proverbs passages including the Woman Wisdom stuff that is mentioned here.
These are just my thoughts. By the way, Marley - I wasn’t trying to offend you, just corroborate what you said. And a gentle reminder: don’t let your lack of faith keep you from thinking about and interpreting great literature. I am also a non-religious person, but I still find it fascinating to look at these things.
Having only a casual acquaintance with Hebrew, I repeated what has been in sources I considered reliable. I suspect what we have here is a Biblical-scholarship example of what Stephen Jay Gould called “Creeping Fox Terrier Syndrome” – somebody once used the fox terrier as an example of a modern animal comparable in size to Hyracotherium, and the analogy stuck. Similarly some scholar once wrote, erroneously, that Elohim was feminine plural, and writers on Scripture have quoted it ever since, without noticing the error (presuming the accuracy of what you say, of which I have no real doubt). I’m grateful for the correction.
I agree with you, Nate, that the “God takes council” are probably survivals of a henotheistic past – a POV datin from a period when “YHWH is tribal god of the Israelites, as opposed to the equally-real Chemosh of Moab” – if it isn’t merely idiomatic, a trope equating God to the King taking counsel with his court, by way of underscoring the divine majesty. However, I need to correct one thing: the Wisdom literature is generally late (excluding the original legend of Job that serves as a frame story for the speeches), and Wisdom as a female personage is almost certainly a personification of the concept, not a surviving ghost of a secondary goddess.
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That’s quite likely the case, Polycarp. I wouldn’t have known the difference myself, but I have friends who speak Hebrew.
That’s quite likely the case, Polycarp. I wouldn’t have known the difference myself, but I have friends who speak Hebrew.
No offense taken at all, at any time.
I do have all sorts of opinions about the bible and other literature. But in this particular case, I don’t have an interpretation from the religious standpoint - lacking one - and I’m not sure what the intent of the passage is either. The speculation that it’s a carry-over from polytheism strikes me as quite possible. It would be interesting to compare the passages that could refer to multiple gods and see if they are thought to be written around the same time. That might point to some other major shifts in Judaism. As is, it’s had some biggies - like on the issue of reincarnation.
Yes, you’re right about Woman Wisdom. I just attended a lecture at an SBL (Society of Biblical Literature) conference by Dr. Michael Fox who talked about wisdom in Proverbs and I can’t believe it slipped my mind so quickly. Woman Wisdom, as you say, was probably a response to Hellenistic influence. Good point. Chalk it up to sloppiness on my part.
Also, regarding the error in Hebrew - no harm done. It’s clear that you’re a smart person and I can understand the mistake.
About this whole topic - it probably won’t get solved by us, since it has been hotly debated for over two thousand years by Jews and Christians alike. Each person sees what they want to see. But it’s still fun to talk about.
