Genesis chapter one is clearly false and here's proof

The creation myth presented in the first Chapter of Genesis is clearly false, and here’s proof.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now it is certaintly true the before life first evolved, heaven or “space” and the planet earth had to first be created, and there is no scientific evidence disputing this.

2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.

Of course primitive single cell life did evolve at some point. Early life would not have had any way to detect robust forms and would have found their surrounding a void. Yes, life most likely would have come about on the surface of the planet, thus “the deep” would have been devoid of it, and, as is still the case today, dark. And, if we interpret the “Spirit of God” as being life itself, it most certaintly moved, whether through primitive cellular locomotion, or only via tidal currents, primarily over the face of the waters, where science does hold life began.

3 And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

Sure, at some point primitive single cell life forms would have developed the chemical ability to rudimentally detect light.

4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

And sure, when life “saw”, it only makes sense that this “God”, whatever that is, was able to see also. And of couse, being able to detect which direction light was in would have aided the survival of life and this, just to give the text the benifit of the doubt, was good. And yes, life would have been able to detect and act on the fact that some areas were light and some areas were dark.

5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Primitive life would have experienced the motion of the earth relative to the sun which brings about day and night. Science has no evidence that there was a time in earths history when it did not move thusly. This time period of single celled life eventually able to detect certain wavelengths of the UV spectrum did indeed constitute a major epoch in life’s development.

6 And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

It is not disputed by reputable scientists that there was a time at which the atmosphere changed from its original clouded greehouse state. The was indeed accomplished through photosynthesis which, simply put, does separate one molecule of water into hydrogen and oxygen with the help of light from the sky. But this passage is hardly clear.

7 And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so.

This separation of water would have eliminated the greenhouse and revealed the sky and made clouds less ubiquitous. Sure the atmosphere changed a great deal, but this sentence is hardly clear in its meaning which is the first strike against this obvious fable.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

The change of the atmosphere and the subsequent changes in the way life survived also constituted a major epoch in the story of life.

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

Sure, the continents as we know them (in differing locations) did appear after the change of the atmosphere, since the end of greenhouse conditions allowed for the icecaps to form. But are we supposed to believe there was no dry land at all before this time? What fools do the authors take us to be?

11 And God said, “Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth.” And it was so.

Sure, primitive lichens and mosses did spread across the land very early in life’s history, but fruit trees?? There is no evidence that complex plant life evolved prior to complex animal life that I know of, although there wouldn’t be any reason for this not to have been the case. This claim though is dubious according to the fossil record at the present time.

12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

The development of complex multicelled plant life may have proceeded the developement of complex animals. Obviously the plant kingdom did evolve before the animal kingdom, but there is a definite flaw in the ordering here. Of course, this fable basically fails to explicitly note the developement of multi-celled animals, but perhaps they took this as a given.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
15 and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

All this – the developement of complex animal life capable of not merely distinguishing light and dark but first the sun and then the moon and then, as improved visual accruity evolved, even the stars. And this would have been a major epoch when our ancestors developed sight. But distinguishing what day it is? I doubt sea-dwelling creatures had wall calendars – they clearly had no walls on which to hang the calendars. Pure insanity! Strike two!

20 And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens.”

Primitive sighted creatures would have overwhelmed single celled animals and animal life would have found all sorts of ecological niches to evolve into and thus could be said to “swarm.” And yes, obviously if life did start in the waters, multicelled life would have evolved in the waters as well but I don’t think this primitive text gains an extra point for happening to be right twice in this regard. But the real problem here is that birds did not evolve until the dinosaurs came and went and any idiot knows that. Any mention of the dinosaurs that would have existed on land for many many years before birds could have evolved out of them is completely missing. Am I supposed to let the mass extinction of the great lizards excuse the authors for being fooled into thinking somehow birds evolved directly out of the water? I don’t think so. One word: crocodiles. Who can’t look at a bird and a croc and see they are distant cousins? That’s strike three, but I’ll go on anyway.

21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”
23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

Well, I fail to see how you can count the pre-Cambrian through Jurrasic etc. eras as just “one day” when anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of scientific deliniation can see this time period could be broken up into many epochs. But, let’s give the authors the benefit of the doubt that they through all this into one epoch so as to move the story along. Otherwise, who knows how long this silly fable would go on for.

24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.
25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

With the great extinction of the dinosaurs would have led to mammals (cattle etc.) spreading across the earth and filling the ecological niches left by the previous occupants. But what are these creeping things? If the authors mean insects and the like, I hate to disappoint them – insects evolved even before the dinosaurs. Even flying ones. Right out the the ocean almost. It is almost as if they got insects and birds reversed. But, since the meaning of creeping things (they could have meant rats and other various animals which I guess could be said to creep) is vague, I won’t count this against them.

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

I know what people are going to say – the “us” with which “God” is suddenly speaking must refer to the animals – after all man did evolve from them and thus could be said to be “made in their likeness” – the likeness of both “god”, whatever that is, and animals. Who else could this “us” be refering to? And science really can’t argue with the idea that man, with his intellegence and opposable thumbs, did and does now have dominion over any plant or animal we so choose.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”
29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

OK, already. Man (and yes, woman) does have dominion of the rest of creation with the spirit/breath of life. We get it.

31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

And, of course, homonids have existed for a few million years with this status and this is yet another epoch, and I suppose again a “good” one. End of chapter.

But, just to reinterate, these ridiculous ideas of some vague firmament separation which is completely spurious and unexplained, coupled with the idea that ancient sea creatures had wall calendars, not to mention the big falsehood this chapter propagates: that somehow birds evolved directly from sealife without any mention of the dinosaurs, are scientifically invalid. Sure, you can try to argue that the authors were taking poetic license with the classic fish/sea and birds/air parallel, but I don’t buy it. They also lump all of plant evolution and all of animal evolution together when this process was clearly concurrent, though plants indeed came first. The authors were obviously dumb primitives who had no idea of the reality of the creation of homo sapiens on this planet and this myth is no closer to the truth than any other creation myth handed down since ancient times. This just goes to show that the ancients have nothing to teach us.

Can anyone point out any other flaws in the text?

Joel

Your entire premise if flawed. You assume that the creation story is being told as if from the perspective of the creations, and that G-d is a form of physocal, biological life such as we are familiar with through scientific detection, observation and analysis.

In Jewish theology, G-d is completely non-physical. He doesn’t detect light and dark through eyes or the like. He knows all that exists, including light and darkness, because he is omniscient.

Once one drops that premise of yours from your post, pretty much everything else falls apart.

I make no assumptions about what the word “God” means in this text, although I find it interesting that God does not see anything until light “exists.” I do appreciate this is the first chapter of the first book of a much larger text by a wide variety of authors and that the word may have other meanings or a more devoloped meaning later. I don’t see any reason to count this turn of phrase against the authors here because of other connotations given to the word later on.

If I flip a coin and write “as luck would have it, it landed heads-up,” I would be dismayed if someone reading what I wrote 7000 years hence interpreted this to mean I felt that some primitive demi-god named Luck personally swooped down and intervened on my behalf.

I can’t count this against the authors as anything more as a turn of phrase whose exact meaning is lost to the sands of time.

Eh, personally I don’t see any point to this thread other than to pick a fight with the SDMB creationists.

“The Gettysburg Address is false and I can prove it! It says that our forefathers brought forth a new nation ‘fourscore and seven years ago’, but in point of fact, the new American nation didn’t properly begin until the Constitutional Convention in 1787. So there.”

:rolleyes:

Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, the obvious flaw in your argument is your false initial premise that it is possible for the Bible to be incorrect.

Those who have seen my posts can attest that I don’t believe this, but that’s what many creationists believe.

jmullaney:

Yes, you do. This is a quote from your first post:

So you defined G-d as “life” and linked “life” to the scientific, and thus physical, definition of it.

Not necessarily true. Granted, the Bible doesn’t use the verb “to see” prior to G-d’s creation of life, but for crying out loud, there are only two verses prior to that!

Well, you’re assuming that the authors were a) human and b) unknown to and misunderstood by the readers. That’s not an assumption that (Orthodox) Jews make.

Quite frankly, it’s stupid to try to find a good, scientific way to equate the creation story of Genesis with the scientific understanding of the development of life, the universe and everything (thank you, Douglas Adams). If you assume that it was written by ancient people and is intended as a primitive understanding of nature, then it’s clear that their knowedge of science was less than ours in many ways and there are likely to be discrepancies. However, those who believe in the truth of Genesis do so based on the belief that it is, and was always intended to be, a supernatural story.

You can prove anything if you make up your own postulates.

Chaim Mattis Keller

Aw Duck Duck, you broke the code!

…you’re trying to show how a myth is unscientific. Of course it is, that’s why it’s a myth. The only ones who believe that Genesis (and all the Xian Bible) are literally true are the Fundamentalists, and they are a small portion of the whole population (both Xian and secular).

You might make a better arguement by comparing the writing styles of Chapters 1 & 2, especially how 1 is more polished and 2 more “folksy” and possibly older. Also compare how Gen. 1 is written in the Yahwist style whereas Gen. 2 is in the Elohim style and how, during the Babylonian Exile, the myths of the Jews were influenced by their captors own mythology; ie the story of Creation and The Flood.

I expect a 20 page report on my desk Sept. 1st. It will be in 12 pt. text, double-spaced, and the bibliography in AAA (American Anthropological Association) style. :wink:

I equated the Spirit of God with life. I find little scientific evidence that anything else moved across the primordial waters so I can not see a fairer way to interpret this. However, if I say the hat of Joel is red, that does not mean I’ve equated Joel with being red.

I think when you find something written down, believing that it was written by humans is a pretty safe bet. To postulate monkeys with a thousand typewriters or some other highly improbable possibility beyond the realm of science is equally much an assumption. I’m sure the orignal intended audience of the work may have had certain circumlocutions in common with the authors, but that doesn’t mean today’s reader might not be confused by incidental transliteration problems inherent to such an old text.

Hey! No more epiphanies for you!

If the authors intended the story to be supernatural, the correlations between actual historical events are overwhelming, despite numerous flaws. You seem to be making an extra-textural assumption.

I give the text, which I think we can all agree is ultimately a story about the creation of humans, every benefit of the doubt when compared to reality.

jmullaney:

In the words of Ronald Reagan, “There you go again…”

You ain’t gonna get scientific evidence of the G-d of the Bible, because he ain’t physical. It’s completely illogical to base your belief in what is clearly defined as supernatural on what you are able to detect or observe from nature.

In addition, I’m curious to know from whence you get the translation “moved across the face of the waters”. The original Hebrew is “Merachefes al P’nei hamayim,” which is most accurately translated as “hovered over the surface of the waters.” So unless you’re going to posit that it’s referring to primitive airborne life, your attempts to shoehorn paleobiology into the Bible are going to utterly fail anyway.

I’m about an inch away from writing off this thread as trollish provocation. Obviously, religious believers (who say, like I did, that the Bible was not written by a human) believe that it was dictated by G-d. Yes, it’s beyond the realm of science, but it’s hardly the preposterous belief that your “thousand monkeys typing it by accident” is.

Which is the reason why we Jews have the Talmud.

Let me get this straight: the text says that a non-physical, omnipotent, omniscient G-d created things by his statements, and that he created the entire world in six days, and that a snake talked to a woman and convinced her to eat a fruit which gave her and her husband a sense of shame as soon as they ate it, etc. ad mauseum…and I’m making an extra-textual assumption when I say that it’s supernatural???

Yes, there’s quite a bit of historical stuff in there…with stories of supernatural events mixed into that. Ancient Egypt is described consistently with what we know, but there’s also talk of sticks turning into snakes, plagues occurring when declared by a man (who had been told by G-d to declare them), the sea splitting and re-uniting also by a man’s action (again, as ordered by G-d), and millions of people witnessing the voice of G-d speaking the Ten Commandments. Are you going to tell me that to consider this stuff supernatural is extra-textual, simply because of its historical setting?

Except that you insist that it must somehow be understandable without G-d being supernatural, which is kind of like taking a design of a car, erasing the engine, and declaring that the original makes no sense because the design you’ve got can’t work.

Chaim Mattis Keller

A beautiful job, Chaim.

This paragraph has got to be preserved somewhere…it is perhaps the most priceless piece of irony I have ever seen!

I don’t understand what you’re saying. You’re showing how each verse could be correct, not incorrect. In any event, what is a day? Assume God is capable of creating earth, in which case one could not assume that this God lives on Earth prior to its creation; therefore his or her perception of time does not follow the same as that of a human, or any earth dweller for that matter. When you’re omnipotent, you can do a lot in a while. I could go on talking about time being viewed as one reacts- the faster you think and react, the slower things in the world will be movement. As it would be well within Gods powers to do everything at once, the writers of the Bible wanted to make clear the 6 stages to a primitive culture. If you go up to an uneducated Ethiopian and explain to him Darwin’s theory of Evolution, it is not likely he will understand you. If, on the other hand, you tell him that first came small sea life, then scaly things, then hairy and flying things, and then people, he might understand you. So it is with the Bible. You need to find a way to explain the world as it is in terms that someone with no education will understand, while still being technically correct. Not an easy task.

But back to your post. Let’s ask (and I say “let’s” even though it’s just me- it’s a literary expression, and presuemably not literally translated), did birds evolve from sea creatures? Let’s answer, yes. Sure, there were other steps, but the basic idea is there.

Moving on. You are, I trust, familiar with the continental drift theory, which states that at one point there was only one continent, and only one ocean. One land mass, earth, and one sea, the ocean.

Another point: It is never written in the past tense, only in the present, and never does it say “God created such and such” it only says “and God said ‘Let there be such and such’” Different from directly creating, God allows these things to develop.

cmkeller: I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that when typing the name of God you don’t need to hyphonate it, becuase it’s not actually letters but rather dots put together to look like letters. It’s also not really possible to delete it.
~Dan

Oh wait, I was supposed to point out flaws in the chapter, not your paragraph, wasn’t I?

jmullaney, I am an atheist who enjoys debating here. Having said that, please, don’t help me.

I have never seen it translated any other way. I think I went with the NASB version?

Some of what you are talking about it from an entirely different chapter of this book which probably had different authors. This “God” portrayed in chapter one is not clearly described as “non-physical, omnipotent, omniscient.” As far as days being in point of fact epochs, I am again giving the text the benifit of the doubt that this does not describe a 24 hour day as that could not possibly be in accord with evidence to the contrary. Other parts of the Bible may in fact describe what are clearly mythical events and I am not arguing with you there.

I don’t see any good reason to complicate things.

Thanks to Ptahlis and Argeable!

Oh, that’s easy then. If God is not supernatural, than Genesis is false.

Genesis 1:1(and a half) = “This is a myth, not a scientific treatise!”

It’s useful to read between the lines as well.

The post by jmullaney is clearly false, and here’s proof. Birds were around DURING the tims of the Dinosaurs, eg Archaeopteryx. Thus they evolved before the dinos “went”.

There were no paleobiologists, or even scientists when this story was first told. It was told in a way that was understandable to the men of that time, nor for modern scientists. It is a lovely peice of writing, one of the best in all literature, and it expresses the concept of what happened in a way that Moses, et al, could understand. They did not even have the WORDs for many of the scientific concepts we use today to desrcibe how the earth was created.

But I am SURE that FoG, cmkeller, and the rest of us Jews & Christians, after reading that STUNNING “proof” of the 'errancy" of the OT, are going to immediately throw down our Bibles and convert to Secualar Humanism. :rolleyes:

Hey! JD’s at it again, shooting his mouth off.

I think I’ll agree with the first post cmkeller made. I know what you’re up to. I won’t comment on your “arguement” any further.

:rolleyes: :wally

That’s jmullaney. Geez, I’m tired.