OPEL (the German branch of GM) has been around for a long time-it is one of Germanie’s older marques. Recently, GM has been basing some USA models (like the SATURN ASTRE) on OPEL platforms. How are the Opel cars perceived in Germany? Are they on par with VW? Or are they seen as a low-end brand?
The UK equivalient Vauxhall is seen very much as low end (very much generic boring and cheap). But nowhere near as much as the compact US-made cars are in the US (which in my experience are considered the absolute lowest of the low).
And I actually thought it was the reverse, the European-designed small GM Vauxhall/Opel cars were marketed in the US as Saturn, not the other way round.
What? VW has crappy quality, even compared to GM’s US cars. I can’t speak authoritatively on Opel, other than to say that I loved my three week rental of an Opel Vectra. It was a truly spacious car, even by American standards. The 1.9L five speed diesel reported an average of 43 US mpg in mixed, aggressive driving, including 160 k/h highway cruising speeds. It was fun to drive. I’d like to compare the US version – probably a slushbox and some economy engine that’s slow and gets crappy mileage on gasoline.
Of course the image of brands is always a bit controversial and all kinds of personal biases come into play. I would say that all in all the brand is not on par with VW but thats probably more about perception and branding than actual technical differences. Unlike e.g. Seat or Skoda it is not seen as a “discount” brand but more mid-range. It’s the respectable, safe and boring choice for the working and lower middle class. If you are a conservative blue-collar person looking for a family car or a young rural ricer then that’s your car of choice.
[sub]I owned an Astra once - I was 19 and it was a good opportunity.[/sub]
I believe this is true, but I think that’s what the OP was saying - that European GM cars are now making it to the US. This happens from time to time - I’m fairly sure the Ford Focus is a European car now sold in the US.
I’ve never hated a Vauxhall/Opel car I’ve driven, but they aren’t perceived as inspiring. For the most part, they seem to get you from A to B, and they aren’t particularly expensive.
Opels seem to be fairly common here as a sturdy car or were in the past. I used to be confused because there were Opels and Vauxhalls on Irish roads.
You have to be careful because “platform” is a very fungible term to automakers.
The platform could be the basic chassis or unibody.
It could be the unibody and engine.
It could be the unibody with engine and transaxle.
It could be the unibody with all of the mechanical parts.
It could be the virtually identical car with a different marque.
Saying that so-and-so American car A is the same platform as so-and-so European or Japanese or Australian car B when they have different engines, transmissions, suspensions, wheelbases, sheet metal and interior trim, and are built in different factories on different continents doesn’t say much at all.
I can attest to that as well, I rented an Opel vectra estate Tdi for a Hamburg to Amsterdam roadtrip and it was an absolute joy to drive! Not luxurious by Luxury car standards, but it was well built, the controls well laid out and good quality materials, and the drivetrain handled cenfidentally. Incidentally. the Saturn LS 300 is based heavily on the Opel Vectra estate, but after being converted / adapted for the U.S. Market, ended up having little of the road handling qualities (not to mention no diesel engine or manual transmission) that the continental Vectra had.
Actually, as of the 2008 model year the Ford Focus has split into a separate branch for the U.S. Market. According to Popular Mechanics, The model available in Europe is based on a completely new drivetrain and chassis, while the U.S.-market Focus has updated bodywork and interior but retains the previous generation’s chassis.
Actually, the current US Focus is based on a two-generation-old platform (the C170). The European Focus moved to the C1 platform in 2004. The US Focus will move to the C1 for model year 2011 (so, 2010 availability). There’s really no such thing as a “chassis” on a unibody car. If you refer to the underbody and front structure sheet metal, then it’s not “all new” as the C1 is a progression of the C170. What we call the chassis in a unibody, FWD vehicle is really just the assembly of engine, transmission, control arms, axles, etc., that are installed into the vehicle in a single operation. That can be all new, but things like the engine will definitely be different when it hits the US market (for example, GTDI instead of a diesel or tiny little gasoline engine).
The biggest detractor from the current US Focus isn’t the platform (and actually, it’s a damn good [and fun] car). Remember, the C1 (world platform, co-developed by Mazda, Volvo, and Ford of Europe) was designed for everyone’s use, whereas the C170 was soley for Ford of Europe. That means it’s a global platform. They can do things like lengthen and widen it, but all of the fastener points and major dimensions (relative to themselves) will be unchanged. Where you really get the variety in appearance is the “tophat” section, consisting of the body sides, roof, doors, fenders, hood, decklid (“closures”). So for example in the US, the 2008 Focus body really only has a new tophat and trim. The 2011 model will use the new global platform, as well as share the European version’s tophat. It’s a sexy car, but I’m holding out for the Fiesta (for the sole purpose of commuting), which is also a sexy car (we’re getting the five door Europe version, plus a four door).
I’m currently chugging along in a 10 y/o Opel Astra. Nothing (major*) has yet to break and it sure does its job of getting me from here to there.
I do however, still lust after something nicer and fancier (but the economist in me sings YAY that it consumes so little gas)
- Sure, I’ve had to change the battery and the brake disks but that’s quite acceptable for a 10 y/o.
I drive a opel astra 2001 estate.
its not luxurius by any standards or “fun” to drive.
but its well put together, sturdy and havent given me any trouble to date.
and its 40mpg, great for a student with ~1 hour daily commute.
That said opel doesnt have the best reputation. They were cheap cars with small engines, and beeing basically an american brand and not a german one they had quite the problem with rust and general quality.
GM has some problems with branding of the Opel range. As others have noted, it’s not a very sexy brand. The cars are non descript and frankly boring. I think GM made a mistake in putty the Chevy logo on Daewoos over here - they should’ve done that with Opel instead. Add some frippery and re brand the whole thing.
As for the Vectra diesel, well it handles well, but so will any comparable European diesel. They’re good road cars. When crossing the pond, it’s my impression they get softer suspension (handles worse) and automatic (which makes a car with that small an engine sluggish to drive) and replace the diesel with a gas engine. Then they try to market it as an affordable “European Road Car”.
BTW, I drive a ten year old Seat (budget brand of VW) which isn’t very sexy at all, but has no rust and has cost me about $1k to service + one new set of tires in all this time. I trust VW and when I get an opportunity to get a new car, I’m sticking with them.
I sense that GM really doesn’t know what to do with OPEL. Take the Opel Senator, which was a high-end sedan in Germany. It was comparable (IMO) to a lower-end M-B. GM “redesigned” it for the N. American market (it was marketed as the Cadillac “Catera” (where in the name of God did they get THAT name?). They basically made a pleasant sedan into a pig (500 extra pounds, marshamllow suspension, garish interior). needless to say, they would up with something that wasn’t a Cadillac and wasn’t a M-B. I was curious, because the Saturn astre seems to be a good Opel design, that GM hasn’t totally fucked up.
So far this has been a very educational thread. Obviously the Opels being made now are not like the Opel Kadetts that were sold in the U.S. by Buick dealers in the late 60’s-early 70’s.
I had one and it was a nightmare…underpowered and breakable. You’ll note Buick dealers quit offering them because the public quit buying them.
FWIW, I can echo kellner’s opinion that Opel is considered a boring brand here - VW can sell a same-quality car with a noticeable brand premium added IMO. (old dig at Opel drivers: Jeder Popel fährt 'nen Opel - every booger drives an Opel).
But then some brands have succeeded to have a significantly different brand image in the US than in Germany. Mercedes-Benz and Jägermeister come to mind.
I have driven a lot smaller-size Opels my car sharing club has a lot of Corsas and some Agilas (but mainly because Opel has offered a good deal for car sharing fleets in the past). They seem to be reasonably reliable, and drive well enough.
What’s about a lot of cars not making it well over the Atlantic, anyway? I have read that Renault and Peugeot don’t sell at all in the US but I see a lot of them diving around here in deepest Mercedes-Benz country.
What’s typically modified in foreign models that do well in the US, such as Japanese, M-B, BMW? (apart from fitting cupholders, of course)
Renault died in the USA a good 25 years ago…their cars were underpowered and extremely unreliable. The last abortion they tried to market was the AMC Eagle, which seemed to last about 25,000 miles (max). perhaps it was poor dealer support…all I know was (a friend had an R5) all the dealer parts seemed to be on backorder.
PEUGEOT was a similar story: except the cars were very nice. They were well designed, and comfortable. But poor dealer support as well. Which is too bad, because they offered a very good ride and were not overly expensive.
I agree with the comment about Jaegermeister: why anybody would (voluntarily) drink this swill is beyond me!
Yes I agree. This was my first opportunity to drive a European-made European-market car out on the autobahn so naturally I was as happy as a little girl. I’ve since had the opportunity to drive several other cars and it is my impression too that things like suspension tuning over there are adjusted with stiffer settings which gives the cars better high speed on-road handling than what I’ve generally experienced with U.S.-brands, as magazines such as Popular Mechanics repeadedly make mention of U.S. drivers complaining that hose suspensions have too stiff a ride (for comparison, my E39 BMW has a noticeably stiff suspension, which I thought gave me a sense of competent control on the road whereas my friend prefers the settings on an older Buick Lesabre, which while comfortable I was always afraid I’d end up in the bushes with.
Some cars manage to preserve more of the original drivetrain, such as the Cadillac Catera, which was a rebadged Opel Omega. The Saturn I mentioned above also restyled the rear quarter windows to give a more curvy look (the Vectra estate’s had sharp corners in the rear quarter windows), and looking inside I recognized some of the same controls and hardware, but the car had none of the drivetrain that made the Vectra fun to drive at 185 km/h (the rental agency told me not to exceed 190 because it had snow tires and said it matter of factly as if it was a perfectly normal thing to say to customers :eek: )
Wow, totally different experience for me - I had a '74 Opel Manta bought used in 1986 with about 40k on it from a relative and it drove like a train. Completely reliable. It was my first car, and it was certainly underpowered, but damn I loved it.
That’s why I like my tunable suspension. Most of the time, I just leave it set on “plush,” though, because it’s extremely comfortable and quiet. Handling is good enough for daily commuting. I pretty much only set it to sporty mode for short little outbursts when I want to have fun in hill or mountain country, because it’s a fact that slushy is comfortable, but slushy doesn’t handle all that well when you want to have fun.