Sorry to continue the hijack, but must there be a civil ceremony? Could a couple just fill out the proper paperwork without a ceremony?
I honestly don’t know, but I doubt it. Never heard of such a procedure. I think at least two witnesses must be present, but I’m not even sure about that.
Commenting on the US, some sort of verbal affirmation is required, with legal witnesses. At least in the two states I’m familiar with.
My German wedding experience:
Civil wedding, at the registry office: In a nicely appointed meeting room type room dedicated to wedding ceremonies, the official (a Standesbeamtin) and us sat down on opposite sides of a table, with some rows of chairs for immediate family behind us. The official first dealt with legalities (married name to be adopted; what status of mutual assets follows as we had no nuptial agreement (i.e. everyone keeps theirs)), then held a short congratulary speech with an appropriate poem. We signed the papers, the official said the deal was done; only then we stood up to exchange rings, I got to kiss the bride, brother snapped photographs, official shook hands with us and handed us the folder with documents and a copy of the poem that she had written out (we framed that sheet and hung it up at home). Goodbyes; party exited and met the next party in the waiting room that was scheduled 30 minutes later. We sat for ~25 minutes of the whole thing, stood for at most ~ 5 minutes including taking photos and sorting ourselves out for leaving.
Church wedding (Lutheran), a few weeks later: Arrived a bit early, inspected church room (it was a small church in the vineyards that is not used for weekly services; we had to clear the remains of a bird’s nest from the pews). Went out, chatted with guests, then formally ee entered the church behind the pastor with the small congregation already sitting (I had prevailed on the organist to play the tune to Here’s a first-rate opportunity/To get married with impunity from The Pirates of Penzance as our entering piece, and had provided the score to him). We sat down on chairs in front of the altar, for the pastor to liturgize away and preach and the congregation to sing a few hymns. Stood up for each prayer, st down afterwards. Then knelt on a bench provided for a short prayer, sat down again, then stood up for a short while for the actual marriage ceremony. Knelt for another prayer (that I had to discreetly remind the pastor he had missed before), sat down again, stood up to leave the church behind the pastor and before the congregation. In total perhaps ~10 minutes standing, 45 minutes sitting, 2 minutes kneeling.
I think that depends on what one considers a ceremony - in my state the required ceremony consists of each person stating that they take the other as their spouse in front of the official and a witness.
I never married myself or witnessed a civil wedding, so I have to ask: the registrar not asking both of you: “Mops, do you want to marry [Mop’s future wife]” and “[Mop’s future wife], do you want to marry Mops?”, followed by “I hereby declare you husband and wife”? That’s how I know it from movies and TV.
England and Wales - church weddings in the CofE follow the fairly standard church pattern and the priest ipso facto counts as the registrar (I believe in other denominations they have to make arrangements for a civil registrar to be there for the paperwork. For civil weddings, there’s been a massive relaxation as to where they can happen, and it seems like any posh hotel and picturesque country house can be authorised, as it’s big business. But you have to have an appointed registrar there (?it looks as though you can have your own officiant to carry out your form of ceremony as long as the registrar is there to confirm the formalities)
Marriages and civil partnerships in England and Wales: Plan your ceremony - GOV.UK
Yes; because I was a close friend of the couple, I have been to a marriage in France (so kind of close to Germany?) There was just a normal-sized room with the mayor and a couple of witnesses. (The witnesses are, in fact, integral to the process: you cannot get married without them, and their names are recorded in the paperwork. They certify that you are who you say you are and so on.) There was nothing religious about it, nor would a religious ceremony have had any validity anyway (people are free to do whatever they want privately, but this was not the case on this occasion). Also, your friend or priest or whoever cannot be the registrar; it has to be the mayor or his or her deputy.
However, later in the evening there was a huge reception with an infinity-course formal dinner and a party and many, many guests.
Yeah, that’s mostly how it is in Germany too. The French take separation of state and religion even more seriously than Germany, but the German tradition of civil marriage goes back to the code Napoleon during the French occupation in the early 19th century.
This law has been changed more than 20 years ago. No witnesses needed, you can show up the two of you, declare that you intend to marry, each person has to spell out the “yes” loud and clear, you sign the papers, then you are done.
Exactly: you may sit during the boring part, but it is frowned upon for the bridegroom to kiss the bride (and vice versa) and to exchange the rings while sitting. You are also expected not to put your feet on the table
I am afraid not jumping through that bureaucratic hurdle would go against German custom and morals. Sorry, but the signature of the performing official, the stamping of the document and the handshake are to be performed in person.
I was at a wedding just a couple of months ago, and to my shame I must admit I don’t remember what the Standesbeamtin said, but it sure was not “Mops, wollen’se [Mops’ future wife] heiraten”, but rather something along the lines “Mops, nehmen Sie hiermit [Mops’ future wife] zur Ehefrau?” (and vice versa too). Sounds better to me, I must admit. And then they were declared husband and wife indeed, and they kissed each other while standing upright, and are still happily married two months after a long journey to an exotic land.
Not in that form of words, it was more on the lines, of “Mrs X, do you declare you want to enter into a marriage with Mr. Y?”, “Yes”, “Mr. Y, do you declare you want to enter into a marriage with Mrs. X?”, “Yes”, “Hereby Mrs. X and Mrs. Y have concluded a marriage”.
In the religious ceremony the requested response was “Yes, and God help me.”, which sounds just a bit ominous.
Depends on the part of Germany. For the areas west of the Rhine, which were French under Napoleon, civil weddings were indeed introduced in the early 19th century as part of the Code civil regime. In the rest of Germany, it came later, in the 1870s. That measure was part of the “Kulturkampf”, the confrontation between the Prussian (and by extension German) government with the Catholic Church. One measure that the government took to undermine the influence of the church was to strip church weddings of their effect under secular law. The “Kulturkampf” came to an end soon thereafter when the government and the Vatican agreed on a modus vivendi, but the civil weddings were retained.
A question here on the stereotypical American movie wedding in a church: What’s shown in movies is the couple walking down the aisle, standing before the priest, a short marriage ceremony that is pretty much to the point, and then everyone leaving. Is that (in, marry, out) the mode of real American weddings in church, or is it only a cinematic shortcut? If it the normal way of course the couple does not need to sit down.
The German church weddings that I attended, on the other hand, were complete church services (albeit without communion), the liturgy thematically adapted to the occasion, with sermon, hymns, prayers, reciting the Creed, Lord’s Prayer, recessional, running to not much less than an hour. Some few people even opt to marry in course of the normal Sunday service of the congregation, in the manner that baptisms are often part of the normal Sunday service as opposed to a separate service.
That’s been more or less how the weddings I’ve attended have been. But I suppose it depends on your religion/denomination. The Baptist denomination I was raised in didn’t have “reciting the Creed, Lord’s Prayer or recessional” during actual services, and I actually only vaguely know what two of those three even mean. (There was also zero kneeling, something mentioned up-thread.)
Reading this thread made me wonder whether the necessity of getting an official marriage license in the US is analogous to the civil ceremony required in Germany. You have to go to a municipal office and both apply for the license, which the clergyman then signs and attests that the wedding took place, usually several days later.
It almost certainly depends on the religion , but my Catholic wedding was a processional with the groom at the altar while the bridal party walked in , ending with the bride. A couple of Bible readings, vows and recessional. I would say most of the weddings I’ve been to are similar , no matter which religion. Fifteen or twenty minutes , except for the Catholics who do have a Mass- including communion . I chose not to, in part because my husband and his family were not Catholic or even Christian.
Oh, and on TV weddings have dancing at the receptions. Being held in Baptist churches, none of the weddings I’ve attended have had dancing, or alcohol.
Bummer. What sad weddings those must have been. Aren’t weddings supposed to be fun?
Probably not sad to those attending - if there is no dancing or alcohol at a wedding for religious reasons , that religion probably forbids or discourages dancing and alcohol all the time.