German spelling

Honestly, why is German spelling so unphonetic? Like H can be silent or /h/, the tricky Ch can make 3 different sounds, S randomly changes to either Sh sound, Or Z sound and even makes an S sound. There is like 50 different ways to write the ts sound, the confusing and redundant V can make both the /f/ and /v/ sound and could be substituted with F and W accordingly. Why is German spelling so unusual?

Why isn’t “phonetic” spelled phonetically?

A combination of reasons. German is a living language, so over time historical, linguistic, and cultural reasons influence change. German borrows words from other languages and retains some or all of the original spelling, which can create inconsistencies. There’s also phonetic shifts over time, similar to English. And the language itself wasn’t “standardized” until the 19th century so there’s regional variations in spelling and pronunciation.

Edited to add - none of this is particularly unusual or unique to German.

As a speaker of English, isn’t it a bit ironic to be asking this question?

It’s pretty phonetic (be aware also of spelling reforms in 1901, 1996, 2006, etc.), but, at the same time, to pronounce it you have to be aware of actual German phonology like final-obstruent devoicing. IE it’s not spelled in IPA; what language is, what with regional accents and dialectical variations?

Well, Latin and Spanish come pretty close. A lot closer than English, that’s for sure. German’s somewhere in the middle. I rarely hit a line in German choral music where I have any doubt about how it should be pronounced. There are variations but most of them obey some contextual rules and I seem to have either learned or unconsciously absorbed many of them, even if I don’t have the vocabulary to have an actual German conversation with anyone.

Though, I thought it through while sitting under a tree bough and English pronunciation is pretty tough.

German words are nearly all completely pronounceable from the spelling once you know the rules. The idea of a spelling bee over there must be silly – it’s almost 1-1, spelling to pronunciation. English is practically random.

Curious question for someone who describes themselves as a language fanatic. Where, upon closer inspection, the two “g” are pronounced differently. Sorry, I don’t buy it. German spelling is fairly easy, even if Español is indeed easier (despite j-g and b-v, silent h, y=ll=hie=i). If you want difficult spelling stay in English or go French. German? Meh…

I agree that Spanish is even easier, but my understanding is that French is also a one to one correspondance between spelling and pronunciation. That is, someone who knows the rules can pronounce any French word (unlike Spanish, it doesn’t go the other way, meaning in French there can be multiple words that correspond to the same set of spoken sounds, right?).

Oh, and for g’s in German, it’s somewhat variable by region, I think, where g at the end can be pronounced like an sh sound in English, or a hard g sound, depending on where you are. But, g’s in the middle would be a hard g sound, richtig?

Let me introduce you to my little friend:

You are asking why German isn’t written phonetically? It is, accord to its own orthographic rules.

Your mistake is assuming that the orthography of English in Latin letters is somehow universal, or the only rules allowed. Absolutely false.

If French is so easy to write I wonder why the French are so obsessed with dictation? No, I guess French is easy-ish to read aloud, the rules are quite clear – but writing? Too many words spelled differently sound the same, darn homonyms (the list is by no means complete)!
BTW, with the two “g” that are pronounced differently I meant the two in the word “language”, of which the OP claims to be a phana… er, fanatic. I am beginning to suspect the OP is just teasing us, to see how we react.
And we react nicely, of course, politely pointing to the errors of his views, the inconsistencies of his inferences and urging him to recant. :wink:

I’m not

Sorry if the word “teasing” came across harshly, I meant it to be understood like in playfully. That is why I answered, to play along.

As a native German speaker with English as his second language and French as his third (though my French is much worse than my English), I have to agree that French pronunciation is much easier and more intuitive than English. If I encounter an unknown French word, I almost always know how to pronounce it while in English it can get hard, though I’m quite good at it through a long time of learning, being exposed to (by media) and immersion in the language. But if for instance I wonder how an English or French speaker would pronounce a German name, I’m much better at guessing the French pronunciation and often have a hard time coming up with the English.

ETA: as for German, the topical language of this thread: German spelling and pronunciation are quite consistent, if you leave out regional differences and stay with High German. Much more consistent than English.

I’ve gotten the impression that English is not the OP’s first / primary language. It’s the one they’re using here with us, but it doesn’t read to my eyes/ears like someone raised in the USA, the UK, or one of the other significant offshoots of the former British Empire.

IOW, if Spanish is their standard of comparison, then yes, German has a nice helping of spelling idiosyncrasies. But yes, as an American with school-only German, IMO German spelling / sounding is dirt simple and very regular by comparison to 'Murrican.

I once had a weekend German teacher for whom German was her L1, native language. Her dialect caused her to pronounce Ich as Ish. She warned us that we would probably have to change our pronunciation of words ending in ch, in some areas of Germany.

She also taught us a German saying about English. I don’t remember how it goes in German, but in English it starts out: English is a chicken ladder . . .

Letters aren’t sounds.

I guess if the OP is Spanish, then German might seem slightly irregular, but it’s actually a LOT more phonetic than English. As pointed out upthread: you couldn’t do a spelling bee in German, it would be pointless (or at least a very, very long competition).

If you want something perfectly phonetic, then aside from IPA, there are other scripts that are designed to be phonetic, like Chinese Pinyin. When you see a Chinese name like “Xi Jinping” it’s been written phonetically (although people don’t generally include the tone markers).

Opportunity to have a question answered that has always bugged me…

Why do some sources spell the Reichsmarshall’s name as Göring, while others spell it as Goering?

It’s all in one’s perspective. When I was kid, I remember my mom telling me a story about her grandmother. When my mom was a kid, she asked her dad why her grandmother still didn’t speak English. He told her that the grandmother in question refused to learn because English didn’t make any sense. She cited an example: “Read” (present) and “read” (past) were spelled exactly the same, but “read” (past) and “red” (the color) sounded exactly the same but were spelled differently. LOL