Germs and Neat Freaks

I just finished reading some comments on Cecil’s article about toilet germs being expelled after every flush.

Is it true that people that live in slightly, uh, germy environments build up a resistence and that those that clean everyday end up actually being sick more?

It seems to me that there must be some sort of diminishing returns to this sort of practice as people who live in really bad conditions, ie. slums, must get sick more. Is there some sort of empiracal evidence that someone is aware of that proves this hypothesis?

Yes, it’s true…kind of.

As we as a society grow ever more anti-bacterial, we also increase evolution rates for resistant bacteria. Dirty people usually build up their resistance to those bacteria anyway, and being bug-free until you get hit by a resistant strain is what really fucks you over.

Save a friend. Don’t use anti-bacterial anything.

I don’t have any cites for this (cuz it was mentioned in a course I took and I threw out the notes already…) but apparently the Netherlands (someone correct me if I’m wrong on the country) has in effect a zero-tolerance law for salmonella in their food products. Since this law came into effect, there are significantly fewer cases of salmonella poisoning in the Netherlands, however people going outside the country suffer more from salmonella than tourists from most other countries, simply because their bodies are not used to dealing with this particlar bacteria.

OK, I don’t have a link (pls don’t shoot me!), but I read this in the Toronto Star;

As babies, we are born with immature immune systems. As we are exposed to different germs, this causes our immune cells to mature into a normal, functioning immune system. If we are not, our cells develop along a different path, and tend to overreact to injury or invasion.

The reason for people in slums becoming ill is probably connected to poor nutrition, little access to diagnostic and preventive care, and higher rates of addiction, rather than germ resistance.

Pixie sez:
“The reason for people in slums becoming ill is probably connected to poor nutrition, little access to diagnostic and preventive care, and higher rates of addiction, rather than germ resistance.”

OK, I can buy that, but would they also be super-germ resistent? If they were removed from that setting and lived ‘normal’ lives, would they be immune to most germs(or at least a whole lot of 'em)?

I don’t know a whole lot of biology, but there must only be a certain number of anti-bodies that can be produced. After that amount, there just isn’t enough, I don’t know, room(?) for different types to exist.

Also, even if you are super-clean, you must come in contact with a great many germs in daily life. Surely you can’t avoid having contact with a ton of germs everyday. If you do, don’t you get an immunity after your body fights them off?

This is a bit off the OP, but I’ve also heard that all of the anti-bacterial products that we produce now, in conjunction with the over-prescription of penecillin (sp)is creating super bugs. Should we put a stop to the production of all these anti-bacterial baby toys and kitchen stuff that seems to be generally unneeded and possibly even dangerous in the long run?

On second thought, please don’t run with last one, it could really hi-jack the thread. If someone wants to give a really long answer to all my questions, feel free to included a bit on that, but please don’t just try to answer that part by itself.

Man, I have a lot of questions. Some sort of biology teacher should be able to answer a bunch of these. Also, there has got to be a link. I’ll have a look at some previous discussions on the board.

Keep up the replies, I’m fascinated!

Salon. com did a good set of articles about this topic a while back…

http://www.salon.com/health/feature/2000/05/03/germ_warfare/index.html