Get off the NHL's back...

The BBQ Pit
1

Okay, I’ve got a flame, and I’m going to be heard. Earlier this week a hockey player took a two handed wack at the head of another player with his stick, knocking the other player out, and in the process giving him a major concussion. Now there is absolutely no way to justify those actions, but what is up with blaiming the entire sport of hockey? It is a physical sport for gods sake. It has been a physical sport long before lord Stanley’s cup. It always will be a physical sport. But it is as much a sport of speed, grace, and skill as it is beating in each others skulls. Players like Joe Sakic, J. Jagr, and Wayne Gretzkey (may he enjoy his retirement) had a huge impact on the game, but they rarely got into fights or racked up the penality minutes each seasion. They made their impact in their style of play, making the game of hockey, for those who really appericate it, much more than a legal Jerry Springer show to whoop ass on. Yes, there is fighting in this sport, but it is part of the sport. You have to send a message when your teams Gretzkey gets the crosscheck in front of the crease.

So is the NHL, or hockey in general too violent. In short, no, not a chance. Are a few individual players taking it a little too far? That is a very real possibility. But take care of those players, and leave the sport alone. Let the NHL police it self. There is no need for any external policing of the sport. What happens on the ice can stay on the ice, or you’d have have the league in jail for assult charges. Its a game. Let the game be played on the ice, and let it end on the ice. Hockey always will be a sport of grace, speed, and power. You will just have to appericate the game for that.

Oh, and Marty McSorley, I hope that you never get to play another game in the NHL.

knuckle-dragging hose mongerer.
SDMB Self-Righteous Clique

2

But hockey HAS changed, violence HAS escalated over the last 10+ yrs, it’s not the same game. That boy suffered one of the most dangerous of head injuries, delivered deliberately. Hockey, like wrestling has moved from sport to entertainment, largely about money not sport. They should not/can not/ have not proven to be able to reverse this tide of escalation by policing themselves. I believe that charges should be layed, because had it been done under any other circumstance he’d be in jail right now. I think, as a society, we have the right to expect our policing body to intervene to lay a boundary and to induce major league sports to police itself to the extent that it can begin to make an impack against the rising tide of violence.

Personally I think that hockey is an indication of the decline of western civilisation, but then, it’s just my opinion.

“Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings.” Bob Dylan

3

Woe be unto those who don’t understand that hockey is the greatest sport of all.

And I happen to like fierce checking and even a little bit of fisticuffs in the sport. What McSorley did went way over the line, and I think he’s been suspended appropriately.

“You should tell the truth, expose the lies and live in the moment.” - Bill Hicks

4

Yes, but that is a recent trend. The league for years has been handing out 3-5 game suspensions for really egregious conduct, while winking at the sub-human who can’t skate sitting at the end of the bench.

It’s been an arm race for a while. Hell, McSorley’s first job was defending Wayne Gretzkey from other teams’ hitters.

Now I don’t think the NHL should be as tame as international hockey was before the Pros got involved, but there does need to be more enforcement and a few more rules. We can start with “drop your gloves, take a match penalty.”

Of course, I’m still sore at Potvin (who, by the way, sucks), and that was a legal hit.

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5

McSorley didn’t just go over the line; he obliterated the line. I woudln’t be surprised if he is brought up on charges - it’s happened before (I believe in either AHL or IHL, though not in the NHL).

That said, this is not an example to be held up as “what’s wrong with the sport.” Hockey is, quite simply, the fastest-paced, most exciting professional sport, especially when played at the level of skill abundant in the NHL. It is also the only major professional contact sport to be played on an enclosed surface.

Yes, there is a line between playing the game and assault. This is also true of football, baseball, and basketball, but the history of thuggery in the NHL makes it more prone to caricature. The game itself has not become more violent, but the players have become bigger, stronger, and faster. That equation leads to more spectacular highs, and, unfortunately, more spectacular lows (remember the enclosed space?).

The league has been much more vigilant about handing down suspensions and fines in recent years; they too are concerned about image. It seems to be working to some degree, but there will always be those who transgress. You cannot impugn an entire sport for the few exceptions to the general rule. Shall we call the NBA sports-entertainment due to the presence of Dennis Rodman?

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

6

This is not a comment on hockey specifically - more on sports in general.

I personally think that if a person commits an act on the field that would normally get him arrested if he’d committed the same act on Main street, then he/she should be arrested and brought up on charges. After all, the last I heard, league rules don’t supercede state/federal law.

(In this particular case, I believe a felony act was committed, and charges should be applied. I don’t think a defense of “You have to send a message when your team’s Gretzkey gets the crosscheck in front of the crease” holds much weight in court.)

7

One thing that I have seemed to notice is the increase of penalties assed for stick fouls in the recent years, ever sense the induction of the misconduct penality for initating a fight. Before if another player was giving one of your a hard time, you could initiate the fight and only get the 5 minute major, no you can get the 10 minute misconduct. This takes away from the on ice enforcement of those kind of infractions. some one takes a slap at you with the stick, ya start a fight. Now that the option to start the fight is gone, some players have seemed to become a little more liberal with their stick

just a thought

knuckle-dragging hose mongerer.
SDMB Self-Righteous Clique

8

From this article at CBS Sportsline:

Now, I’m not so sure the more egregious offenses shouldn’t be prosecuted outside the league, but I think I can understand the slippery slope theory in these instances. Just where do you draw the line between league enforcement and police enforcement?

kinoons, the increased stick foul argument has been used for years by proponents of leaving fighting in the game, and I’m actually inclined to agree players use their sticks much more dangerously when on-ice enforcers can’t “enforce.” The league response is supposed to be increased vigilance on both unnecessary stick-work and interference, but their own enforcement on these fronts has been inconsistent, to say the least.

Hey manny, was that Ulf Nilsson who got hit by Potvin?

(Ever grateful for never having to hear Nine-teen-for-ty again; dreading the inevitable Nine-teen-ninety-four)

9

First off, I was at that game. I’ve seen two players get their clocks cleaned at the GM, but with very different circumstances:

  1. The Brashear hit. I was in the fourth row for that one, and it happened about 15 feet in front of me. Scary as hell. I thought Marty killed him. I saw Brashear repeatedly taunt the Bruins bench though-I knew Marty felt humiliated, and I figured something bad was going to happen. But, not that bad. Jeez.

  2. The Peca hit on Matty Ohlund. Ohlund was out the rest of the year after that one, and many have said he’s not the same player since.

The difference? Peca didn’t even get a penalty-and he left his feet and hit Matty with an elbow! I think Don Cherry made the best prediction about ten years ago-he said as soon as helmet laws became mandatory, head injuries would rise. They did, and how. That’s the problem with putting people in Robocop armour and setting them loose on one another. The old pads were mostly padding and canvas; today’s pads are mostly thick plastic and look like football gear (I know-I sell them). There is a huge difference between getting hit by an ‘old-time’ hockey guy in soft armour who weighs in around 180 and someone like Eric Lindros, fully armoured and weighing in around 220.

One solution, simply, is to change the protective equipment. If I can go into the boards at full speed, miss a check, and skate off without feeling a thing-that’s too much armour. That’s the problem-folks can go harder into someone and feel no pain. They forget that the opponent can get hurt really bad on a check that they themselves may hardly feel.

Another solution isn’t less fighting, but more fighting. If I had the opportunity to trip Mats Sundin, and maybe lay him out, guaranteeing us a win in a playoff series, would I do it? Well, I’d be less inclined if I knew Tie Domi was going to beat me within an inch of my worthless life after I did. Penalties, suspensions, do you think a lot of these millionaires care about a few extra days off?? It’s not like the old days, where a few days would cause a considerable pinch on someone’s pocket. However, a sound beating by my favorite little monobrowed thug would entice me to toe the line.

My good friend has kids that play in a Can-Am league. Some of the Canadian teams play ‘no check’, which means no intentional contact. While on the surface it would appear this would be safer, he says the stickwork (hooks, trips, et. al.) are a ton worse than the checking leagues.

I think that the big problem with hockey today is the lack of respect between players. How to make multi-millionaires give a rat’s tailpipe about each other is beyond me though. So, I am of the opinion we restrict skaters (not goalies) equipment down to the bare (but safe) minumums, and allow enforcers to protect their teammates as they should, and things will get better. Hockey is one of the most fun sports to watch and play, and shouldn’t be tinkered with. If we can give players a feeling of safety (i.e. they know they won’t be slewfooted, speared, crosschecked from behind) I think it would even be better.

Inasfar as McSorely goes, he’s out for the rest of the year, and was only on a one-year contract. The Bruins can walk away, and no one else will sign him (heck, there are very few 37-year old defensemen I would sign), and he can fade into the sunset. It was bad enough he was going to be known as the guy who cost the Kings the Stanley-now this??

“This is going to take a special blend of psychology and extreme violence.”

10

You don’t. There’s no line to draw. Police enforce the (local/state/federal) laws. The league enforces its internal rules. There’s absolutely no reason why the presence/absence of enforcement activity by either group would affect the presence/absence of enforcement activity by the other group.

Let’s put it this way - if Billy murders Bobby while they’re on their cub scout camping trip, nobody worries about whether he should be tried for murder or kicked out of the cub scouts. There’s no reason why both events can’t happen.

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WillGolfForFood, we’re actually close to agreement on this issue, but let me clarify my point. Every contact sport, by its very nature, contains acts of violence which would result in arrest on Main Street.

Would you be arrested if you fought through a crowd of people, chased down one guy who was running away from you, and viciously slammed him to the ground? Hell yes. In the NFL, they call it a quarterback sack. And it’s not even a penalty.

Each league must protect its players by strict enforcement of the rules and swift punishment of those who choose not to follow them. And nobody is talking about murder. I think it’s obvious we’d be discussing what kind of jail term McSorley would be assessed had his hit been fatal, rather than what kind of league censure he’ll receive. And the last I saw, the Vancouver authorities were waiting to see just how badly Brashear has been hurt before deciding on what, if any, charges will be brought. Again, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is charged. As I said, the more egregious offenses should be investigated, possibly for criminal intent.

I’d also agree with spankboy regarding the issue of respect. I’d always heard one of the reasons Gordie Howe was so widely respected in his playing days was that he’d slam you himself if you tried to mess with him. Also true of Mark Messier in his prime; and also what Eric Lindros aspires to be. It can be a nasty game, but part of the player protection should be mutual respect. If that respect is not present, sometimes a player’s only recourse is to stand up for himself. (Note that none of this applies to or justifies McSorley’s action)

12

The only time ‘outside’ laws should come into play is when a player takes an action which is both egregious AND totally unexpected within the confines of the game.

If you know that the NHL has a lot of fighting and you choose to play, you waive your right to charge someone for assault if he takes a swing at you. But if he pulls a knife on you on the ice, then he should go to jail, because there is no way that a reasonable person could expect to have to face that, so there is no implied contract between the two.

If you didn’t have this standard, then every boxing match would end in assault charges.

As for hockey, I suspect that the people who think the level of violence has increased are new fans to the game. Hockey is much less violent now than it was 30 years ago. When Gretzky entered the league, a lot of teams didn’t want him even though they knew of his tremendous skills, because the conventional wisdom was that a player that small simply wouldn’t survive a season. In the 1970’s, Ted Green had a metal plate put in his head due to a two-handed stick chop similar to Mcsorley’s. At the time, the player got a similar suspension (I think 20 games), but Green almost died.

In the 1960’s and 1970’s, the Philadelphia Flyers were “The Broadstreet Bullies”, and had many fans just because of their violent on-ice antics. The movie ‘Slapshot’ parodied this.

But most people who condemn hockey don’t understand it. A main difference between hockey and other sports is that there are no breaks in hockey. Play can go on continually for minutes at a time, in an enclosed surface at high speed. Aggravation levels are high, and there are few cooling off times as their are in football, a game with similar levels of contact. So fighting offers a release valve for the players.

But hockey is not as bad for violence as many think. When was the last time you saw a bench-clearing brawl at a hockey game? The ‘enforcers’ mainly fight other enforcers. It’s their job. The sport has evolved an on-ice heirarchy which has done a fine job of maintaining a balance between speed, contact, agression, and grace.

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dhanson, point well made about “unexpected within the confines of the game.” Also:

I wholeheartedly agree. It can be a tenuous balance, though.

14

Not to hijack but Eric Lindros aspires only to be a bully. He would attack his own mother if she had the puck!

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