Get off the road, Grandpa!

BunnyGirl: *However, I have seen the effect on a person of having a license rescinded due to age: its horrible. This woman’s (a single woman, age 80, lived alone, etc) car was her ONLY means of transportation in a huge city that was getting bigger by the minute. *

Now this is the part that absolutely horrifies me. She lives in a “huge city that’s getting bigger by the minute” and her car is her ONLY means of transportation? That’s appalling! One of the advantages to living in a “huge city” is supposed to be that the high population density means you don’t need a car to get around and can get access to lots of markets and services without traveling long distances or being isolated from your neighbors (which is part of why they’ve traditionally been popular places for older people to live).

Folks, I have to point out that part of this whole older-driver problem (which Cannon, for example, is correct to note is not a universal problem among older drivers, although I wish he could have done it without calling people “putz”) is our society’s pervasive dependence on the automobile. Yes, I realize we’re a big and spread-out country, and yes, I know that there are many regions where it’s much more cost-effective to depend on private cars than to install systems of mass transit, and yes, I support your right to prefer cars to trains or buses and to live where you like and to drive what you want.

BUT: there are distinct advantages to balancing this “transit individualism” with high-density areas where residents really don’t need cars. We’ve exacerbated the dangerous-older-driver problem by letting our cities deteriorate to the point where lots of older people wouldn’t want to live there. As people have moved out to ever-more-distant suburbs (even those who still depend on the city as commuters), municipal tax strategies haven’t changed to keep up with this “flight of the tax base”. Revenues shrink, services go down, suburban flight accelerates, and you’re left with a much less livable “inner city” (and lately, as suburban flight sprawls farther and farther out, similarly depressed “inner-ring suburbs” too).

What’s the result? You have lots of aging people living in suburban areas where owning and operating a car is absolutely mandatory if you don’t want to be housebound. Nothing wrong with that, of course, except that when operating a car becomes too difficult for them, they don’t see any alternatives that will still give them some freedom and independence. They don’t have local public transit, they can’t afford to keep a chauffeur, their kids don’t live close enough or don’t have the time to drive them everywhere they want to go, and they’re terrified of lapsing into isolation—so they keep on driving. And eventually, lots of them have accidents.

I’m lucky in this respect: my mom (now in her mid-seventies) voluntarily decided that she didn’t want to drive regularly anymore and was able to afford moving to a city which does actually have a lively urban economy and good mass transit, where she really can enjoy the places and people around her without needing to drive. But what are you going to do when your parents start to lose their driving skills but don’t know how to contemplate life without a car?

pkbites, you’re absolutely correct that driving isn’t a “right”; but in practical terms, for most people, it’s pretty much a necessity. If we’re going to take away older people’s driving privileges when they can’t drive safely anymore, we need to find some ways of making driving less necessary for them, too. Just saying “Ah shuddup Grandpa, your independence is meaningless compared to other people’s lives: get off the road and stay home!” is not good social policy. (Note added in preview: Fillet’s suggestions about lobbying for “senior transportation,” on the other hand, are extremely sensible.)

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Kimstu ***
Now this is the part that absolutely horrifies me. She lives in a “huge city that’s getting bigger by the minute” and her car is her ONLY means of transportation? That’s appalling! One of the advantages to living in a “huge city” is supposed to be that the high population density means you don’t need a car to get around and can get access to lots of markets and services without traveling long distances or being isolated from your neighbors (which is part of why they’ve traditionally been popular places for older people to live).
*

Yeah, Grandma. Why not walk down to the open-air market daily to food shop like they do in Paris? Just be extra spry around the muggers and watch out for those ice patches.

Testing to renew your license every 5 years sounds groovy to me. Standing on line for hours to wait for my road test will give me time to catch up on back reading. And I’m sure everyone denied a license will obey the ruling and forego getting behind the wheel.

Some form of eye/coordination testing for those over 75 might be reasonable. But the loons who put me in jeopardy daily with speeding, tailgating and the like are usually not elderly.

Uh, Jackmannii, the objection you mention to older people living in cities is the reason I went on to state in my earlier post:

In responding to posts, I think you’ll find that it helps to read beyond the first paragraph.

Still, Jackmanii has a point.

It looks like we’ve decided that elderly drivers are a menace.

Not all, just some.

So let’s test them. I’m for it.

Let’s test some of the morons who are not elderly, as well. I see lots of those.

This is one of the most idiotic OPs I’ve seen here.

I’m done.

Kimstu, it’s just so dreary to hear yet again how all our problems relate to our frightful overdependence on the internal combustion engine. Here we have a discussion on whether some form of driver re-testing is appropriate for older folks, and somehow I don’t think a long-term study of the sociology of city vs. suburbia will address the issue in the short-term.

We need solutions now before a really scary problem faces us - oldsters in high-powered SUVs. Think of an aging O.J. Simpson at the wheel of his black Navigator, peering through the windshield, whacking his girlfriends, and tottering out in traffic to challenge other motorists. Oooh.

For those of you young people who decry the power of the AARP and it’s lobby, I have an idea.
Why not form your own group. You could call it the AARB, the American Association of Rice Boys.
:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Rice boys. Haha, I love that term. I just learned it on the other “Killer Grampa” thread.
Oh yeah, I wouldn’t mind more frequent testing, but I’m not sure that most accidents are directly related to driver skill.
My next car is going to be an Audi Quattro 4.2.
Outta my way, Rice Boy.
Wheee…
Peace,
mangeorge

Jackmannii: Kimstu, it’s just so dreary to hear yet again how all our problems relate to our frightful overdependence on the internal combustion engine.

Oh. Well, please forgive my bringing it up, then, even though it lies right at the heart of the problem addressed in the OP, namely, that many older people are deeply resistant to losing their driving privileges although they no longer have the ability to drive competently. Didn’t realize that posts in this forum had to comply with your dreariness standards. :rolleyes:

Oh, please. If you’re a grandfather, maybe you should grow up. Starting with the third post in the thread, we’ve seen:

nowalls99:“I would be in favor of mandatory driving tests, both written and road tests, along with vision checks, every 5 years. The time frame could be altered based on age, maybe every 3 years once you reach 75 years of age.”

ben901:“I think the answer may lie in reforming driver testing standards across the board, without specific attention to age. Vision, hearing, basic knowledge of laws and, in my opinion, reflex and reaction time should be tested annually before people of any age are granted the privilege (not right) to drive.”

VileOrb:“Personally, I’d like to see drivers tests get much harder and also be given every 5 years.”

aynrandlover:“I say test us all.”

blessedwolf:" . . . testing drivers every five years–ALL drivers–is a brilliant idea."

Fillet:“Since I spend a fair amount of time on the road myself and see poor drivers of all ages, I would agree that making everyone re-test periodically would be a good idea. Why not do it when your driver’s license is up for renewal? Once every 4-5 years should not be a big deal, and make an end-run around the AARP decrying re-testing as age-discriminatory.”

You’d better go grab a bucket of water, because your straw man is in danger of taking the whole neighborhood down as it goes up in flames.

I guess you couldn’t be expected to know. But I’ll post an updated list shortly ;).

One thing for sure, I don’t plan to end my days cooped up in a New Urbanist ghetto on some micro-plot of land without transport, waiting for someone from the Village Green ElderAid Society to catch a tram down to the foot mart to buy my groceries. I want my own vehicle and the right to careen down the highway, shaking my bony fist and cutting you off just like all the other bad drivers of whatever age.

Quote:

“many older people are deeply resistant to losing their driving privileges although they no longer have the ability to drive competently.”

Well, I thought I was done.

I;m sure that you consider yourself a competent driver.

Unlike the rest of us old fogies.

Your arrogance is unbelievable.

Putz.

pldenisson, I was responding to the OP.

And I was responding to some of the comments made by other posters.

Do you have a problem with that?

Thanks for telling me to grow up. It’s good advice. I’ll take it to heart. It wouldn’t hurt you to do the same.

[sub]chanting in background[/sub]
Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit! Pit!
[sub]runs[/sub]

Kim, I agree. It was very sad. This was in Nashville, which, if anyone has been there lately, you know how HORRIBLE the traffic is and how much urban sprawl has come about in the last 10 years. They do have a bus system but I don’t know how good it was nor do I know if anyone took the time to introduce the system to her (I think not) or alternatives she could’ve used.

Cannon replied to me: *“many older people are deeply resistant to losing their driving privileges although they no longer have the ability to drive competently.”

Well, I thought I was done.

I;m sure that you consider yourself a competent driver.

Unlike the rest of us old fogies.

Your arrogance is unbelievable.

Putz. *

Oy, Cannon! As many previous posters have pointed out, to say that many older people have lost the ability to drive competently is not to say that they all have! Please, nobody is arrogantly accusing all old people of anything here!

And I must say that your numerous failures to grasp that distinction, as well as your continued disregard for the rule forbidding direct personal insults in the Great Debates forum, are probably not doing very much to convince other posters of your claims to undiminished mental sharpness in your golden years.

(And Jackmannii, I heartily support your right to choose whatever transit options you prefer in your old age, and even your right to sneer at people who prefer different options. But if the risks associated with older drivers are considered great enough to inspire mandatory periodic testing, and you eventually fail the test and lose your license, what will you do then? Perhaps you will end up wishing that more people had paid a little more attention to the “dreary” issues of suburban sprawl and urban degeneration a few decades ago, so that you could now have some more attractive lifestyle options as a non-driver.)

I thought you said you were a grandfather.
Aren’t you a little old to have an attitude problem?

(by the way, if you’re going to call everyone a putz, why not do it with some flair? :wally)

I’ll probably walk into the side of someone’s car, and make enough from the ensuing insurance scam to be able to hire runners to attend to all my wants.

Being a scofflaw also appeals.

Kimstu

My claims to undimished sharpnes?

Are you serious?

Read some of the things that have been written here.

I’m 54 years old, and I should get off the road, because I’m a grandfather.

I am not diminished, and I resent that you would say that.

In the words of the immortal Wally, You are a putz.

Jesus, Cannon! Where did anyone say that you, specifically are a bad driver? Anywhere?

Go on, look. I’ll wait.
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I didn’t think so.
:rolleyes:

in the OP, Bricker stated

Look around you when you’re driving (and quite well, I might add–there. Ya happy?)…if there’s someone with their turn signal stuck on “clueless” and they’re going 15 mph below the speed limit, I can guarantee that they’re not a bluehair.

OK, it’s a bit of a generalization. NOBODY claimed that it was universal. If that’s how you read it, get out your bifocals and look again, cause it ain’t so.

All I’ll say is that I don’t know if you’re a defensive driver, but you’re sure as hell a defensive poster

That is…

I meant that they ARE a bluehair, of course.

Uh… I’d be willing to bet you that driving by itself isn’t the big deal with the elderly that you think it is. It’s the loss of independence/forced dependence which I think is probably the motivator.

I’m only 28, but having busted up my knee a couple of times, I’ll say that I was extremely averse to being so dependent on people as I was during the time before I could use crutches. I imagine that being elderly and having your license revoked probably feels a lot like that, only more final.